[DaiPlusPlus]

None of those are “meme” languages.

I appreciate Python started-off as a toy-like language - but its utility as a glue-language for serious number-crunching (see: how almost all ML projects involve Python somehow) and the admirable community surrounding it means its credibility is established. The worst thing anyone can say about Python is that it’s the new VBA.

Rust is the new C++ - Microsoft wouldn’t be investing tens (hundreds?) of millions of dollars in enabling Rust for Windows drivers if it wasn’t serious. (Whereas it’s Zig and Carbon where I have concerns about adoption and longevity: the post-C ecosystem isn’t large enough to sustain three languages that overlap each other so much)

[zeroCalories]

I'm just messing around, I use Python and Rust all the time and I love them. But the larger point is that these are not representative of the average tech job. Most of them are C#, Java, C++, JavaScript, etc. You pretty much only see Rust postings for startups. Python is more common these days, but it was also a HN meme at one point:

http://www.paulgraham.com/pypar.html

[eesmith]

> Python started-off as a toy-like language

It did not. It started as a language do system administration for the Amoeba operating system.

Here's part of the README for the first public release (0.9p1, available from python.org):

"This is Python, an extensible interpreted programming language that combines remarkable power with very clear syntax."

"Python can be used instead of shell, Awk or Perl scripts, to write prototypes of real applications, or as an extension language of large systems, you name it."

[DaiPlusPlus]

You are correct.

What I meant was that - in the time after it was created for sysadmin tasks - but before it found it’s new home in data-science - Python was often used as a beginners’ language as a more modern and expressive alternative to BASIC - which led to its “toy” reputation - an undeserved reputation that it has successfully shed.

[eesmith]

It is hard for me to accept that historical interpretation as I started using Python back in the 1990s, when it was already making in-roads in steering high-performance computing codes. NumPy's roots date from that era.

In 2002 it seemed that half the attendees of the Python conference were there because of Zope.

I was programming full-time by 1999.

So for me Python was well-established in several areas far before its wide-spread use in computer programming education or its use in data science.

[DaiPlusPlus]

I never had any exposure to HPC, scientific or numerical computing, even through university and in my career - that world is still comparatively silo'd off from the wider dev ecosystem IME; I know you are correct in what you say, but I imagine Millennials like myself (who were still in middle-school when you were using Python professionally) only ever saw Python in less serious applications.

[JohnFen]

> Microsoft wouldn’t be investing tens (hundreds?) of millions of dollars in enabling Rust for Windows drivers if it wasn’t serious.

I'm absolutely not arguing against your point about Rust, but I wouldn't take what Microsoft is investing in as a strong signal for anything.