[jongjong]

Damn. The market is already so tough for software engineers right now and the supply of engineers is going to increase again. I don't see how wages can drop lower than they are now. I think some engineers may have to consider a career in construction, plumbing, retail or other. Software development is just not worth the hassle and strain. Not to mention that it has become laborious, repetitive and inefficient without much autonomy in terms of choice of frameworks, tools, etc... Software development appears to have become a low-status, menial office job. Not to mention that we are now extremely replaceable; not only because of AI (which makes developers more productive) but because of standardized frameworks like React which allow juniors to churn out features fast with limited knowledge of software development; this means that seniors can often be replaced with juniors.

Maybe security will be the next big thing? All these juniors churning out code using frameworks but not understanding what's really going on under the hood might introduce more security vulnerabilities. Not to mention all the disgruntled, jobless developers who might turn to hacking to make ends meet.

I guess people who are really into software development may want to consider moving into consulting, management or teaching. I also noticed a lot of bs jobs opening up dealing with regulations and compliance.

I remember when I joined the industry in 2012, being a developer was very special; you would interact directly with the company directors, you could choose all your tools and frameworks or even build your own from scratch. You could also decide to focus on back end or front end as there was no clear separation in responsibilities. I guess that's the downside of joining an industry which essentially didn't exist 50 years ago; you never know how it's going to end up. It's not like being a lawyer or doctor which has remained high status and high pay for thousands of years.

There's a whole social architecture designed around propping up lawyers' and doctors' pay by constraining the supply of graduates and imposing artificial requirements. On the other hand, software developers tend to be extremely compliant and willing to work overtime for free, not interested to unionize, you don't even need a degree (very low bar to entry), etc... The highly compliant, overworked ones force the rest of us to match them in their degree of compliance and overwork to remain competitive. It's really a sad race to the bottom.

[jihadjihad]

This is one of the more perplexing takes I've seen, assuming this isn't satire

[berdario]

Yeah, I agree that the trend is pretty bad... And little will fundamentally prevent things to get as bad as the parent describes

But construction and retail? Really?

We are paid multiples of what people working in those sectors are being paid :/

[hackernewds]

for spinning on a chair no less

[rngname22]

Having data fluency, code fluency, you are already a valuable asset in many horizontal moves in tech companies and large companies with unavoidable tech bureaucracy - move to a sales role and now you can actually answer tough technical questions during prospecting or qualification without having to harass an engineer. Move to a PM role and have a better understanding of the level of effort of a task. Move to an operations role at a dinosaur conglomerate and use your scripting and automation abilities to outperform your peers and reinvent how your team works.

Learn to describe your experience and goals as a story that makes sense and is compelling.

Most white collar work would benefit from experience in software or data, whereas lifting 2x4s into place may not.

[midasz]

Wait you guys actually contemplate your "status"? This seems overly dramatic and does not match my experience at all. Software development is a very young profession and will continue to change.

I genuinely don't understand that you can, with a straight face, say that juniors with copilot can do the same work as seniors. Typing up the code is like what, 25% of time spent - during a good week!

[jongjong]

That's true. It may change back to be good again. It's what we make it. Our political systems could change as well and make us more relevant again. Like if private currencies were allowed and fully embraced by governments, being a developer would probably become high status as every business may want to have their own currency. Being able to issue and administer one's own currency may be the highest status, highest leverage job imaginable. Like a financier or bank manager. Unfortunately, this is not possible in the current political environment. There is only one tightly controlled and regulated national currency and it mostly benefits lawyers, economists, politicians, CEOs, celebrities, influencers and a whole bunch of halfwits... Not developers.

[pb7]

You and anyone reading this that thinks like this person: I implore you to talk to as many people as you can outside of the industry. Ask them about their job. Ask them about their perks and flexibility and how they're treated by their bosses and how they're evaluated and what their prospects are for promotion.

You have not a fucking clue how good you have it. If you did, you would be too embarrassed to write a comment like this.

[jongjong]

I think the people coming out of those cushy corporate jobs are in for a big shock.

What you're saying is completely untrue where I live (Australia). My sister in HR earns more than me. My cousin who is a truck driver can save more money than me due to lower cost of living in rural areas and access to cheap real estate (which is not an option for me as a software dev)... My dad boasts about my truck driver cousin's achievements (as he has been able to buy his own house) and he rightly thinks I've been a gullible fool for having chosen software development as a career. I was a top dev. Now out of work for a few months. I worked for a company backed by Y Combinator. I was an early employee on a $4 billion market cap cryptocurrency project. I'm also a top percentile open source developer with thousands of stars. It's all worthless.

No no. I think you're the one who should be embarrassed. After what I've been through, I have no shame nor pride left to feel such emotions.

[Apocryphon]

Not to discount your overall point, but there might be differences in cost of living disparity between Australia and the U.S. that leads to those perspectives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV7JPC2FuNs

[jongjong]

True.

- Builders, truck drivers, plumbers and miners do get paid a lot in Australia. Miners are typically paid a lot more than even the best software developers.

- Australia's economy is founded on immigration and a constant influx of wealthy foreigners are propping up the property market which inflates property prices and rents... Especially in big cities where developers are forced to live for jobs.

- It's almost impossible to get funding in the software industry. The very few channels of funding available in large urban centers are extremely risk-averse and seem artificial. By the time you qualify to get funding, you already don't need it anymore.

It's a perfect storm. Almost as if all the economic forces were specifically aligned to maximize harm against software developers. I had actually left for Europe (which has its own issues) but after the big crypto crash, I had to come back and it was even worse than when I left because now there were many immigrants competing for tech jobs and driving down wages and those same immigrants also helped to drive up house prices and rents... Double slap in the face.

[paxys]

Relax, the market is fine. Tech salaries haven't taken a hit. A few thousand people (out of many millions) got laid off, and most have already found jobs again. A third of the initial wave of tech layoffs got rehired within a month (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/16/why-some-young-laid-off-work...). No need to join a plumbing class just yet. Take an online AI tutorial instead.

[reidjs]

I think that’s a bit drastic to switch to a diff career entirely. Have you tried looking for software engineer jobs in non-big tech roles like in insurance companies and boring things like that?

They don’t pay a million dollars but still pretty reasonable. Then again I don’t have super high expenses so ymmv

[flextheruler]

Am I missing the sarcasm?

Even if what you’re saying is true about the SWE job market which I doubt what SWE would completely switch career paths to become a plumber and not just find a related IT position?