[uxp8u61q]

As someone who used to be a diehard Linux user and supporter, and then switched back to windows after about a decade, this thread is a good reminder of why I switched back. I've been hearing about the year of the Linux desktop for... Years... And yet here are people who suggest I should put up with an incomplete, partially broken display server, because they don't want to deal with maintenance of the old one. And in this thread, any complaint by real users who are missing features or have encountered bugs is met with a dismissal.

You know what? The equivalent of X11 in windows may be full of cruft, technical debt, poorly thought out / "unelegant" design decisions... But it fucking works. I'm sorry, but I have other things to do than dealing with the constant churn of Linux desktop software.

I remember a decade ago when everyone was supposed to switch to pulseaudio, it was the greatest thing since sliced bread, its design was solid and future proof. Migrating from alsa did break everything and was a PITA. And alsa was still there! The fix for many problems was to configure something in the venerable alsamixer. Now apparently we need to migrate to pipewire. All I know is that upgrading broke my rpi4. I don't care about the software, I just want my htpc to play a video with sound when I get back from work. I still had to run alsamixer and flip a few knobs to get it to work again. This is madness.

[redox99]

> You know what? The equivalent of X11 in windows may be full of cruft, technical debt, poorly thought out / "unelegant" design decisions... But it fucking works. I'm sorry, but I have other things to do than dealing with the constant churn of Linux desktop software.

It's funny because it's the opposite.

On Windows, you can install and update the graphics drivers without restarting, and it can ever seamlessly recover from a GPU crash.

On Linux, you need to update the whole kernel, and if the GPU or the driver crashes, you'll kernel panic.

On the compositor side, on Windows you can easily have multimonitor setups with different fractional DPIs, different refresh rates (including variable refresh rate), mix of HDR and SDR, applications without vsync and so on. On linux, even single monitor HDR is unsupported.

[shrimp_emoji]

X11 also just "fucking works", and this is article is about a proposal to remove it from GNOME.

GNOME is the DE equivalent of North Korea. It's like hearing about North Korea contemplating removing the right to wear clothes and going, "I left Earth a decade ago, and this is a good reminder of why I haven't come back." :p

X11 will still be supported by sane (desktop) DEs for as long as Linux will still be in use, is my guess. (Just like window minimization and non-rounded corners and system trays and disabling composition and...)

> Now apparently we need to migrate to pipewire.

I don't even think I'm on pipewire. Using Arch, you can run anything you want; no ones forcing you to do anything. ;D

[M95D]

> X11 will still be supported by sane (desktop) DEs for as long as Linux will still be in use, is my guess. (Just like window minimization and non-rounded corners and system trays and disabling composition and...)

Not if they remove X from gtk+ too. That is the logical next step.

[r0l1]

I am using wayland since 5 years and never looked back to X11. I think it is the right way and time to remove the old insecure X11 backend. GNOME should not be bloated with legacy stuff.

[Fluorescence]

Your experience is not universal. On an intel cpu/gpu laptop, I have zero issues.

But on an AMD/Nvidia desktop it's unusable because it's buggy as all hell. It's endless glitches in dozens of applications. At first it appears fine and then you get subtle stuff like like letters not appearing in vscode when you type, OBS won't record etc.

[r0l1]

I have experience with all three manufacturers. We deploy them at work and the integrated AMD GPUs work just as good as the Intel systems. However I can't say much about the discrete AMD GPUs or older hardware. Just yesterday I changed one nvidia system to the proprietary Wayland driver and started gnome with a three monitor setup. Works like a charm.

[Gualdrapo]

Then I don't understand why people blame about Wayland about this on its entirety.