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by thrway63245 978 days ago
You managed to miss the Crusades in their entirety.
3 comments

I'm honestly not sure how much the events of the Crusades really contribute to the contemporary Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

The Crusades were a rather belated attempt by Christians to reconquer the territories they had lost to Islam – over 400 years after that initial Islamic conquest. They succeeded in the short-term – the Christian Kingdom of Jerusalem endured for almost 90 years, and they managed to hang on to the coastal city of Acre (now in Israel's Northern District) for almost another hundred – but were ultimately unsuccessful.

Whereas, the current Israel-Palestine conflict is primarily a Jewish-Muslim conflict, not a Christian-Muslim one. There is a small Christian minority on the Palestinian side, but Palestinian Christians have no particular links to the Crusades; nor do Israeli Jews or Zionism have any particular link to it. Some of the Crusades (especially the First) involved antisemitic pogroms-but there were plenty of other pogroms in European history which had nothing to do with the Crusades, and by the time Zionism came along, other more recent instances of antisemitism were much more of a motivating factor than any of those as historically distant as the Crusades by then were. So, the Crusades were really a rather different historical chapter without much to do with the current one.

Depends on your definition of crusade and success. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconquista - without that Spain would still be Islamic, so would Portugal.
Historians disagree on how to define “the Crusades”. The traditional definition only includes Christian attempts to reconquer “the Holy Land”, and by that definition the Reconquista was a separate thing. Other historians support broader definitions which include the Reconquista, wars against the remnant non-Christian populations of the Baltics, religious wars against Christian heresies such as the Cathars/Albigenses and proto-Protestants such as the Hussites, etc

However, given that the historical crusades in Israel/Palestine have rather dubious relevance to the contemporary conflict, other “crusades” fought thousands of kilometres away are of even more dubious relevance

Re: grugg. Wow, we have a comedian. Do you do birthday parties?

Someone saying with a straight face "no, I really checked and it goes no further than this" about the Holy Land seems unbelievably naive, no?

Did you miss the part where their “research” is literally a ChatGPT session.
It’s not naive, it’s willfully blind. You’re supposed to pretend history started in 1850 and ignore certain other wars of conquest.
And not everything goes back to the crusades some like this goes back farther still see the Roman siege of Jerusalem in 70 ad. Or you could look back farther still to the Babylonian conquest and captivity. History is deep that way trying to trace back to first causes is an exersise in futility. If the religions of both sides are to believed on this it goes back to an inheritance despute over the blessing of their mutual patriarch about 3500 years or so ago in a episode of religious history that reads more like bronze age episode of the Maury Povitch show.
We’re not talking about ancient history that recedes into mythology here. The Arabs conquered a whole bunch of land during a specific period of time that’s well documented in written history. When the Jews came back to their ancestral homeland, it wasn’t the Romans or Babylonians they found there. That matter fact is directly related to that former fact.
Interesingly their wouldn't be Islamic Arab there if it weren't for the the Roman conquest many of those scattered Jew moves to what is now southern Saudi Arabia and Yemen and eventually converted the Himyarite Kingdom to Judaism. Those Hymarite Jew along with several other monotheistic religons that moved into the area (early christian, Mandaeins, Sameritain Zorastrians) became highly influential culturally and created the environment in which Mohammed and Islam emerged.
My man didn't even mention the battle of Uggg vs Gruggg in the region in 38,000 BC.