But there exists a large group of people, especially here on HN, that want to execute a series of transport/car revolutions all in short order. There is the connected car, the electrification of cars, the auto-drive car, and the "end to individual car ownership". Many players in the industry want to push all those things to happen at once. Tesla actively pushes 3/4 of them. So it is natural for people to draw parallels, to see one revolution as integral to another.
Name one. Name one notable person here on HN who wants to "end individual car ownership". Not to offer an alternative for people who don't need to own a car all day every day, but to end it.
I don’t know who notable people here are, and don’t really care. The fact is that the opinion that cars should be banned/removed/made second class citizens is an extremely common and popular sentiment on HN.
You are correct, and all carbuyers should be aware. I know I will work with the service department of any new vehicle I buy to determine how to disable communication, if not faraday/RIP out the modem of any car I buy.
That said, I think a lot of non tech savvy people associate the two. My dad dislikes EVs for many reasons Fox News tells him to, but one of them is "self driving cars are never going to be safe or practical". He doesn't get that EVs can exist separate from Tesla self driving shenanigans, or that ICE vehicles are trying to do the same thing.
It was pioneered there. Not been able to buy a modern EV without it. Ostensibly for range anxiety early on, kept for the sweet revenue. The GM EV1 and Tesla roadster? were probably the last without it.
The most range-anxious person I ever saw was a tesla driver at a rest stop. A traffic accident had put us on a 150km detour though a different mountain valley, one without cellphone connectivity. He was at the first rest stop trying to figure out whether to push on or attempt to turn around and go home. He didn't have the range to go back, and couldn't figure out of there were any chargers 115km forwards at the next town. No cellphone coverage had turned him into a seething ball of indecision.
Cars have been running out of gas for 100 years, give or take. To refill an electric car you can usually just pull it with a tow rope for a few miles to recharge.
Doesn’t really seem like a seismic shift in paradigm to be honest. Certainly not to justify a different level of range anxiety than a gas car running a bit low.
>> Doesn’t really seem like a seismic shift in paradigm to be honest.
It really does, at least for those not living in big cities. It isn't even really about the range. It is about the limited availability of charging infrastructure, and I don't mean charge points. I mean that any gas-powered car can be "recharged" at the roadside. Someone can give you some gas. That isn't a thing for electric cars.
If a town must evacuate, a thing that does happen, you will want the ICEs vehicles that can be refueled quickly and easily in less-than-ideal conditions. A few years ago Fort McMurray Canada had to evacuate ahead of a wildfire. 80,000 people on the road in maybe 30,000 vehicles. The nearest town was over a hundred miles away, the nearest safe place maybe a hundred more. There were trucks handing out gas/diesel along the evac route to keep people moving. Such an impromptu evacuation would not have been possible using EVs. Evac situations also tend to coincide with loss of grid power (fires/hurricanes/flooding) which only further complicates the problem. Lots of people in small towns keep extra gas at home, or at least know how to syphon gas quickly between vehicles. EVs cannot do such tings.
> Such an impromptu evacuation would not have been possible using EVs.
This is, in fact, precisely backward. A fully charged EV will stomp all over a fully gassed ICE in a stop and go evacuation situation.
EVs don't have to idle. So, unlike older combustion engines, they don't use energy unless moving, and they recover most of the same energy when braking. At very low speeds, EVs stomp all over combustion engines. You don't need to refuel people because the EV isn't running out of gas from idling in stopped traffic.
More modern combustion engines turn themselves off. But, even that has its limits as you can't recover the start stop energy like an EV can.
This seems an absurd take but the absurdity is all in one direction - you can go the other way and maybe find reason again somewhere in the middle:
>> It is about the limited availability of charging infrastructure
You begin most days at home, do you need more than the charging infra? You start each day with the ability to drive 2-4 hours. Are you planning to spend more time driving most days?
An EV sat at home has 80% range. You don’t leave them fully charged usually, for the sake of battery longevity but you absolutely want any excess solar in your remote property being added to your EV rather than sent back to the grid.
That may be more range than the gas car sat next to it on an idle Tuesday when an emergency hits. Who keeps a gas car fully topped up at all times?
With an ev in a remote location, you start every day with 80%. That gas car you meant to fill up when you were next in town? Good luck because:
>> Evac situations also tend to coincide with loss of grid power (fires/hurricanes/flooding)
This means the gas pumps are off. They use electricity, plus the staff are evacuating anyway.
Need to cross a now flooded road? You might have to hitch a ride across in an EV, your gas cars intake might be too low and end up with the engine hydro-locked.
Just for the fun of this and mainly because the context for the comment to which you are replying is: "It really does, at least for those not living in big cities." let's address some of your points:
> Are you planning to spend more time driving most days?
Where I live in a sparse rural area, if you take a vehicle out it is very likely to be for a minimum of four hours, distances are large and any vehicles are work horses, if they're not travelling they're putting in an 8 hour shift (minimum).
> Who keeps a gas car fully topped up at all times?
We do, and most of our neighbours do, in our case this goes to my father who was born in 1935 and still keeps things "ready to go", be it cars, tools, spare generators, etc.
The vehicles are filled and there are spare jerry cans, full, in the sheds.
Our neighbours are ready to fight fires on five minutes notice, they've got tenders topped with fuel and water and all times, etc.
> This means the gas pumps are off. They use electricity,
What the literal F? - Sure they have electric motors but they (the local ones here at least) have attachable hand cranks not to mention the servo has a "generator" that provides "electricity" when the main grid is down.
> Need to cross a now flooded road? ... your gas cars intake might be too low
Say what? I cannot recall the last time I saw a 4x4 without a snorkel.
Sure, but with a gas car the typical response is to hitch a ride to the nearest gas station (which along any highway won't be that far unlike EV chargers), buy a small gas can, fill it up, and hitch a ride back. Sometimes gas stations even have a gas can you can borrow for free so your only extra cost is the time. Once in a while a nice person will even have extra gas in their truck they will just give you for free.
A tow truck by contrast will cost you $100 to get you to a gas station. Tow trucks are great services if the problem is more than out of gas (and some of them will bring gas for less, but you still pay for the service), but there are not what most people use when out of gas.
I'm assuming regen is designed to be used for short periods when slowing down, I wonder how long it can be used continuously.
Also, what would be the requirements for the towing vehicle? 70 kW of extra load is no joke, and car engines are generally not designed to handle heavy loads for extended periods of time.
It wasn't pioneered in EVs, it was coincidental timing. These features were always coming to all cars - but features start off in luxury vehicles, and EVs were priced in the luxury category. Go back and look at mid-to-late-2000s luxury vehicles and you'll find the features being developed there, even before the modern electric vehicles started showing up.