[pdimitar]

Going "actually!" on people and acting like a dictionary is making me wonder if you are arguing in good faith.

Yes we are forced to work. If I stop paying for stuff I'll starve, nevermind the fact that I'll have to live outside.

And yes we can live in the woods, theoretically. But we don't want to.

And no, before you say it, this being "the price to pay for living in civilization" is NOT a given. It's a local maxima that many people agreed to never revisit. Not very impressive, and not a good outlook for our race.

[RHSman2]

I don’t argue. I am just portraying my view on what is possible in life. That maybe different to yours. That’s ok right? I recommend reading ‘Man’s search for meaning’ by Viktor Frankl. It is a landmark book.

We do have choice and most do take the lesser evil of IT and but if you really want, you can go look to see what else is out there.

It is not without risk though.

[sfn42]

Problem is you want to live in society. You want to have your cake and eat it too. You want utilities, roads, healthcare, all kinds of shit.

That requires money, so you need a way to generate money. But you don't have to partake in society. If you want to I'm sure you can grab an axe and go build a log cabin in bumfuck nowhere.

And then you can work all day to make sure you have housing and food and firewood and whatever else you need.

Personally I'd rather sit on my ass in a comfortable office and get paid to think and press some buttons so that I can get electricity and food and all the shit I need. But nobody's forcing us.

I don't think you want what you think you want. You like modern society, certainly beats fighting mountain lions for days-old dead deer and dying of a treatable infection. If you want the benefits of society you have to contribute.

[pdimitar]

> Personally I'd rather sit on my ass in a comfortable office and get paid to think and press some buttons so that I can get electricity and food and all the shit I need.

Me too, but I am arguing the degree of it here, and that nuance is sadly lost on many. They always jump on "go live in the woods then" which obviously is not what the argument is about.

If the costs of living drop a little and if housing becomes actually affordable then I'll very likely never open my mouth criticizing civilization again.

And I will not agree that the current world economical situation is inevitable. I think many of us are quite aware that the world elite is playing dangerous games at the expense of everyone else but themselves.

It does not have to be this way. It can be better. But that's a huge -- and different -- topic.

> But nobody's forcing us.

Hard disagree and I'll leave it at that, you are chasing a dictionary definition here much like my previous parent poster did, and that's not moving any discussion forward.

> I don't think you want what you think you want.

Disrespect will get you nowhere in any discussion.

> You like modern society, certainly beats fighting mountain lions for days-old dead deer and dying of a treatable infection. If you want the benefits of society you have to contribute.

Sure, and again -- degrees. It's not an all or nothing and it's very puzzling why you and many others are framing it that way.