[bryanrasmussen]

there are various programmer types who find the Apple way really onerous and problematic, because they want to control everything, these can be either Windows or Linux since both give you the ability to control and mod your system at very high level.

Every example of bad behavior by Apple in relation to their products, customer service etc. connects in the mind with this underlying philosophical difference between how computers should be used, and so the indignant feeling wells up in their brain that Apple users are misled and abused, and if you are misled and abused you must have Stockholm syndrome.

This however is just my reading of the phenomenon I have observed quite a lot.

Before anyone tells me I'm an Apple lover, I would say until the M1 I considered all OS'es equivalent with some various benefits to each, but as long as I have M series Macs I do believe they are very superior (but haven't tried recent - this year - non M machine)

[throwawee]

>there are various programmer types who find the Apple way really onerous and problematic, because they want to control everything

Treating customers like renters after they buy your products at a premium is a pretty onerous practice and it's pretty surreal to see the pushback characterized as megalomania.

[johnklos]

Funny, because I get the impression that users of Windows and Android systems are treated as renters. They're certainly not treated as owners, because the devices and OS continuously give the OS and software more control over the device than they give the end user.

Sure, Android has improved lots, mostly because of comparisons with iOS, but who can forget that it used to be the case that you literally couldn't install and run certain apps without agreeing to ALL of the apps' demands? What if someone doesn't want to give Facebook access to your microphone and location?

The fact that you can't uninstall Edge or even have links reliably open in your browser of choice just shows how Microsoft thinks of you, and it's only getting worse, with the extra steps you have to take to even just have a local account. They'll phase that out eventually.

Sorry, but most people, myself included, want and are happy to use a "walled garden" device, particularly if it means I don't have to deal with spyware and apps trying to steal all the data they can.

[Hizonner]

It's kind of sad that you seem to think that Windows and Android-as-supplied-by-the-phone-maker are the only alternatives to Apple.

Your example about Edge shows that Windows is also a walled garden. They just haven't finished all the wall building quite yet.

Apple is, at least often, better than those. It's just that none of them are good enough.

[johnklos]

> It's kind of sad that you seem to think that Windows and Android-as-supplied-by-the-phone-maker are the only alternatives to Apple.

Oh, I don't think that Windows and Android are the only alternatives. Android is pretty much the only smartphone alternative, though.

My primary machines run NetBSD :)

[bryanrasmussen]

when one makes a statement it happens in context, this context is often important to consider to get the meaning of the statement, this is especially important in the English language.

This importance of context in English is the reason why "Buffalo Buffalo buffalo Buffalo Buffalo" and similar expressions are valid sentences.

One should try to be precise in usage, but it's also reasonable to assume interpretation follows normal usage all of which is preamble to pointing out that:

Hey, given the context it should be obvious that "because they want to control everything" actually means "because they want to control everything on their computer" which is a commonly expressed desire by a large portion of this community and thus the expression is not an accusation of megalomania.

[7thaccount]

The problem with the "walled garden" is that it is insidious.

At some point they control everything and at that point, it's too late to create an alternative product as it would be like 20 generations behind in performance.

You don't have to go so far back as to build your own NAND gates or a computer out of falling marbles, but giving the user almost zero ability to customize is just crazy.

[CPLX]

> The problem with the "walled garden" is that it is insidious.

The problem with all the other options I’ve seen is that they are worse.