[dr_dshiv]

I highly recommend getting into classical literature. It is incredible and beyond conception — I had a light scattering in my education, but only later and recently have I discovered how incredible it can be.

Suggested Reading for beginners:

* Life of Pythagoras, by Iamblichus

* The Golden Ass, by Apuleius of Numenia (specifically, translation by Robert Graves)

* Life of Alexander by Plutarch

* Education of Cyrus by Xenophon

* Parmenides by Plato

Also, I have found SHWEP.net to be invaluable for a gentle yet rigorous guide through many classics, though it takes an esoteric bent (which I love)

[bb123]

> It is incredible and beyond conception

Could you elaborate a little bit about what you think gives it these qualities? I've dabbled in some classical literature before but I've always found them to be very difficult reads, so I rarely have the motivation to finish them. I am wondering if there is something I am missing about the genre.

[dr_dshiv]

Sometimes it seems like everything from the Greek and Roman era is known and has been processed by historians and, furthermore, doesn’t have really anything to provide us in the present day.

My experiences with ancient texts makes me realize that there are so many remaining mysteries (that can be illuminated!), so much material that has never been “processed” by historians or philosophers, and so much that can be useful for the present day.

I’m working on an English translation for Marsilio Ficino’s 1497 publication of “De Mysteriis” — which includes 13 tracts, including Ficino’s own “Philosophy of Pleasure.”

Marsilio Ficino was hugely influential in the 1460s-1500 Florentine Renaissance because he was hired by the Medici’s to translate the old Greek classics (Plato, Plotinus, Hermetica, etc). He helped classical ideas spark the renaissance! So the fact that his own book has never been translated is mindblowing — I get to see where I can contribute.

But then in his actual book, I learn that it was fairly common to conceive of the soul, gods, demons etc as entities in the world of Nous or mind. Yet, he specifically says that the soul does not feel and that gods do not feel. That’s weird! Often times people associate soul with “the feeling part.” But there were multiple perspectives on this!

How does this relate to the present? We typically associate intellect and mind with consciousness— yet now AI developments force us to consider mind or intelligence without conscious experience. So, it gives a genuinely interesting framework for understanding “noetic reality” — the unconscious mathematical world of forms and information that seemingly preexists the material cosmos (ie perfect triangles or spheres can be conceived as a part of math that are eternal and timeless).

So that’s just one example but there are a lot of them I could share. Particularly as they relate to history of science and ideas — but also fascinating social phenomena — like how hard the Roman’s came down on the Bacchae — or how important the Oracle of Delphi was to Greek colonization — etc etc.

[felipeerias]

We are usually not aware of the degree in which Classical and Medieval thought provided the foundations of our modern world. For example, the concept that the universe can be studied by human reason and described with mathematics started as a philosophical/religious idea.

If you haven’t read it yet, I recommend that you check out “The Light Ages” by Seb Falk.

[rottc0dd]

Homer and Ovid are pretty good for starter. Metamorphoses is really nice book with lot of stories woven together.

My favorite quote:

> Yet world was not complete. > It lacked a creature that had hints of heaven > And hopes to rule the earth. So man was made. > Whether He who made all things aimed at the best, > Creating man from his own living fluid, > Or if earth, lately fallen through heaven's aether, > Took an immortal image from the skies, > Held it in clay which son of Iapetus > Mixed with the spray of brightly running waters — > It had a godlike figure and was man. > While other beasts, heads bent, stared at wild earth, > The new creation gazed into blue sky; > Then careless things took shape, change followed change > And with it unknown species of mankind.

[xhevahir]

Part of why a lot of readers have found this literature to be inexhaustible is, I think, its surprising combination of familiarity (since it's had so much influence on subsequent Western culture) and foreignness. For example, consider the career of the term "hero," which seems to have meant something like a warrior-aristocrat in Homer, and later, in Greek tragedy, takes on the moral grandeur that we meet with in characters like Oedipus, but somehow also is used to describe the boxer Kleomedes, who massacred dozens of kids because he was upset over losing a match.

When I first started reading classical literature I was struck by an idea I found in Bruno Snell's The Discovery of the Mind, that Homer, apart from having no words corresponding to our "mind" or "soul," didn't even refer to the body as a single whole--more as a collection of limbs. The article here talks about this: https://intertheory.org/torrente.htm .

None of this makes ancient literature easier to read, though, unfortunately.

[atomicnature]

Life of Pythagoras was super influential to my life. I was very inspired by the way Pythagoras lived his life - a 100% commitment to finding out what is true, travelling all over the world amassing knowledge/practices/skills through humility, trying so many things out and finally spending so much of his life teaching. Pythagoras was probably the greatest philosopher ever. I also recommend reading about Archytas, one of his spiritual descendants, his thoughts on math, mechanics, music, learning and philosophy are amazing.

[dr_dshiv]

Archytas is famous for having designed a steam powered glider. And for having freed Plato from his brief slavery. But he also appears to have written the first treatise on mechanical engineering:

https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1...

[bonoboTP]

But he got scared of sqrt(2).

[hax0ras]

I guess you could say he was being irrational about it. Da dum.

[xamuel]

I wouldn't recommend the Parmenides as one's first step into Plato, it's one of his hardest dialogues. I'd suggest the Alcibiades as the best Plato intro. It's lighthearted to the point of pleasure reading, yet at the same time deep and profound. https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1676

[dr_dshiv]

Thank you for sharing an easier start to Plato. And yes, Parmenides is typically treated as one of the hardest dialogues. Nevertheless, the core of the dialogue is quite simple, where Parmenides discusses the relationship between the One and the Many. It’s really quite simple, yet it is fascinating and a great example of Platonic dialectic — it ends in mystery, but along the way makes you think really deeply.

Here’s a short segment from the dialogue:

“Then the one cannot have parts, and cannot be a whole?

Why not?

Because every part is part of a whole; is it not?

Yes.

And what is a whole? would not that of which no part is wanting be a whole?

Certainly.

Then, in either case, the one would be made up of parts; both as being a whole, and also as having parts?

To be sure.

And in either case, the one would be many, and not one?

True.

But, surely, it ought to be one and not many?

It ought.

Then, if the one is to remain one, it will not be a whole, and will not have parts?

No.

But if it has no parts, it will have neither beginning, middle, nor end; for these would of course be parts of it…”

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/parmenides.html

[albrewer]

I read those names correctly and wondered why, when I realized I'd listened the memory of them was from listening to the first episodes of The History of Philosophy Without Any Gaps[0] over a decade ago.

[0]: https://www.historyofphilosophy.net/

[bambax]

And now the size of the corpus may be about to explode! From the article:

> If these words are indeed what we think they are, this papyrus scroll likely contains an entirely new text, unseen by the modern world.

[jansan]

Can someone tell me if there is a German version of Life of Pythagoras available? I cannot find anything for some reason (only one bok on amazon that has only one review claiming it is an automated translation).

[germanier]

A commented translation is available under the title Pythagoras. Legende - Lehre - Lebensgestaltung as a book and as open access here: https://rep.adw-goe.de/handle/11858/00-001S-0000-002D-B3AD-5...

[quakeguy]

Thank you!

[mikk14]

I'd add that I had a great time reading the Metamorphoses by Ovid.