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by AnimalMuppet 979 days ago
Nope, not me. But I've only been programming for 40 years, so maybe I'll get it when I've got more experience.

In other words, baloney. If you don't do that kind of programming, that stuff is very opaque. I might be able to get it if I were willing to stare at it for another 15 minutes, but I'm not willing.
1 comments
sordina 979 days ago
15 minutes is not a long time. Easily understand doesn't mean instantly understand with no background reading.
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_a_a_a_ 978 days ago
You're just ignoring what he is saying.
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sordina 978 days ago
What part am I ignoring?
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AnimalMuppet 978 days ago
> In other words, baloney. If you don't do that kind of programming, that stuff is very opaque.

That part.

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sordina 978 days ago
Well, I interpret that as the assertion that it's more opaque than other types of programming. But I disagree and think that it is actually simpler in terms of the syntax and amount of prior understanding required. My blunt reply is that to assert that a particular example is inaccessible but then only to have dedicated 15 minutes to prove so is silly. I'm sure most people who seem to suggest that this stuff is opaque had no problem learning PCRE or complicated SQL joins and also didn't complain that it took more than 15 minutes to do so. Of course TT is a deep field and there are many complicated parts of it, but the syntax, rules and the example given are not opaque and very understandable to anyone who can tackle languages and abstraction.
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_a_a_a_ 977 days ago
Okay then. Please give some links to the following.

– Lambda calculus tutorial that gets you up to what you need to understand the referenced paper in 15 minutes

- A description of Hoare notation that I can also understand to adequate depth to understand the referenced paper, also in 15 minutes

- A description of classical logic etc. etc. 15 minutes

- A description of intuitionistic logic etc. etc. 15 minutes (presumably in how it differs from classical)

These would be very useful. If you can also explain them in a way that would allow me to use the information I've learnt in an hour to do something useful with programs like represent them, transform them, verify them against a specification, I would gladly spend a couple of weeks or a month doing that, genuinely.

If you can't do any of these things, please stop posting how easy it all is

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