[PH95VuimJjqBqy]

often it's both, it's not like a poor manager is consistently hiring talented developers.

We have that with one of the teams internally, I don't know what the technical leadership on that team is actually doing but whatever it is, it's not working and hasn't been for a while now.

I'm talking 6+ months of code not working right that I myself could have implemented better in a single day because it's not hard. I'm talking API 1 calling into API 2, API 2 reports a problem with detailed information (per our standards) and API 1 logs it as "see API 2 logs". Then you go look at the API 2 logs and _it's not there_. I've legitimately had this experience.

multiple of our offshore development teams run _circles_ around this team. The developers are not good so they can't be successful despite the poor leadership and the leadership is not good so they can't fix the problems with the development team.