[warner25]

Great comment. I've had an interest in suicide prevention for many years and I think you're right on the mark.

I'm in the US military which has a suicide rate much higher than the general population[1], so prevention is a high priority, and hence my interest. A common thread is clearly that military service members are people who are willing to kill, and think differently about killing and death, and often have access to guns (most often personally owned, because they're gun enthusiasts, not because the military issues guns).

[1] My understanding is that after you adjust for demographics, because most service members are young males, the rate actually isn't higher, but the reality is what it is: we lose more people from suicide every year than combat operations.

[verteu]

> My understanding is that after you adjust for demographics, because most service members are young males, the rate actually isn't higher, but the reality is what it is: we lose more people from suicide every year than combat operations.

Interesting note, I didn't realize this. Apparently, demog-corrected military suicide rate was previously below civilians [1]. In a few recent years this may have reversed, per the graphs on https://chrisfrueh.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Smith-et-a... .

[1] https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=13069467757696393...

[warner25]

Yes, that study is a good find. There are so many fascinating bits of information once you start looking at this topic below the surface.

Another one that I remember learning is that the suicide rate among white troops is much higher than the rate among black troops; I have no idea why.

Also, the rate is actually higher among troops who haven't been to deployed to combat. That might be an age thing (younger people are higher risk, and less likely to have served long enough to see combat). It might also be because troops with intense personal problems get held back from combat deployments so that they can get medical care, make court appearances, etc.

On that note, the upward trend over the past 20 years is likely, partially explained by demographic shifts too. When we had a draft up until the 1970s, the military got a broad cross section of society. Then through the early 2000s, the military was able to be quite selective, only taking people with high school diplomas and few personal problems. Starting around 2005, with both Afghanistan and especially Iraq raging, and a fairly low unemployment rate in the US, the military had to start scraping the bottom of the barrel, bringing in more people with criminal histories who didn't finish high school and had other life problems.

[red-iron-pine]

getting into the infantry, at least in the US military, is non-trivial. entire generations have now grown up on Halo and Modern Warfare 2, and there are no shortages of wanna be trigger pullers. Meanwhile something like 1 in 11 troopers in the Army are combat arms -- you need a lot of logistics, mechanical, etc. bodies. Closer to 1 in 7 in the Marines, but still the majority aren't combat arms.

might be a different story in UKR, where they're grinding through troops and everyone is looking to be in the rear w/ the gear.

but that selection bias is definitely geared towards motivated combat troopers. meanwhile some kid from Missouri joins up thinking he's gonna get out of his shit town and learn computers or something but then spends 18 hours a day filtering water and fuel at a remote base in Germany for 4 years.

> Another one that I remember learning is that the suicide rate among white troops is much higher than the rate among black troops; I have no idea why.

depressed middle class white kid realizes he could have worked at Target while going to community college, and is now isolated doing a job he hates and can't quite for 3+ years. black kid is happy he doesn't have to go back to a worse situation.

also heard a statistic that hispanic recruits are more likely to make it though basic training and AIT / A-schools. hispanic paradox, military edition?

[giantg2]

"think differently about killing and death"

I think this is a huge factor that feel under represented for the population in general. I'd imagine this is part of a factor for the higher farmer suicide rates as well.