[RamblingCTO]

> I've never used any other webstack (and I've used several, in several languages) where it was so hard to figure out why different tests pollute each other, causing subtle failures depending on the order of test execution. Sure, you could say that it's all a matter of learning the right way, but there are just a terrible amount of footguns.

> Debugging why something doesn't work in Spring can also be a nightmare.

Making these points you can see if somebody actually used Spring in production ;)

How much time we've lost with caching in tests and other shennanigans. I've never had a stack causing more problems by just being how it is than with Spring Boot. Don't even get me started on the absolute clusterfuck of hibernate. I'd love to move on from anything from this stack and we're working on it! Absolute dumpster fire.

[wiseowise]

Where are you migrating?

[RamblingCTO]

No idea yet. But the first step is to have totally isolated domain logic in plain Kotlin. That's a nice start. Next we'll look into Graalvm, but no high hopes that everything we need is compatible.

/edit: it's not meant to replace spring, I know what these things do. It's to remediate some of the performance issues and compile time safety, which using graalvm inevitably brings ...

[nvm0n2]

GraalVM and Spring and Hibernate are all totally different things. You can't replace Spring with GraalVM, that makes no sense.

You could look at Quarkus, Helidon, Micronaut or KTor if you want a Kotlin framework.

[therealdrag0]

Plain is good. Moving from Spring to no-spring/no-DI-framework was amazing.