[unfamiliar]

I am consistently disappointed with the iPhone’s video quality. It looks like the bitrate is simply too low, either to keep file size down or because the phone can’t encode 4K that fast. However shooting in ProRES is simply not practical for me. Can apps like this improve the HEVC video quality, or do they simply reuse the Apple defaults with a new UI? Or is there a ProRES workflow I could be using on the phone?

[turnsout]

Context: I'm in the middle of adding Apple Log support to my photo/video processing app.

The iPhone has incredible video quality, but you're right that the default Camera app botches it (or requires you to shoot ProRes HQ which is objectively overkill). I've been using Blackmagic Camera to shoot 4K Apple Log into a 10bit HEVC file, and it works really well. The files are easy to grade, and the bitrate is enough for everyday use. Footage from the Blackmagic app is clean, clear and not over sharpened. I really hope Apple adds an HEVC Log option!

[unfamiliar]

What’s your app?

[coldtea]

>I am consistently disappointed with the iPhone’s video quality.

Compared to what? An Arri? Bebause on its own, as far as smartphone video goes, it's quite fine. You can also trivially shoot a higher bitrate (not ProRes) in Filmic Pro and other apps.

[unfamiliar]

I don’t really have anything to compare it to as I have never used a proper video camera. So I’m just comparing it to the average YouTube video quality I guess.

The main problem that I see is compression artefacts, especially in complex scenes with a lot of motion. For example filming a person or pet moving against a background of grass or gravel, or the camera panning across complex terrain. I even got it really badly just filming waves going in and out on the beach.

I know these are tough situations for to handle but it feels like bumping the bitrate would help a lot.

[whynotminot]

> So I’m just comparing it to the average YouTube video quality I guess.

Dude this isn’t 2011. The “average YouTuber” these days is shooting on full frame Sonys, Blackmagic, or even RED.

[unfamiliar]

If you don’t have any constructive input why reply?

[coldtea]

He has though: that "youtuber quality" can be misleading as a criterium for iPhone video quality, as major youtubers nowadays use high end devices.

If you don't have video experience, then you might find it subpar when actually you compare it to impossible standards and 10x more expensive gear and lenses.

[whynotminot]

Sorry, it seemed to me that you didn't realize that you were comparing your phone to the same cameras used for actual film productions.

YouTube is not a shoestring operation anymore, filmed with whatever point and shoot digital camera is at hand, and for most even semi-popular creators it hasn't been like that for some time now.

I thought it would be constructive to point out that most pro or semi-pro YouTubers are now using top of line kit, with full post-production pipelines tailored to YouTube.

If you know this already and yet still expect your iPhone to match up, then ok, perhaps you're right and there isn't a constructive conversation here.

[kuschku]

Considering how large tha camera bump has gotten, you could probably put a single large 1" sensor in there as one of the Xperia phones did. Then you'd get much better image quality and wouldn't have to rely as much on AI to fix the sensor's limitations.

And even ignoring the limitations of the sensor, the iPhone isn't even the best smartphone. Due to the fact that it can only record variable framerate video it's basically unusable for professional work, even with the Pro model in ProRes.

[michaelt]

> Then you'd get much better image quality and wouldn't have to rely as much on AI to fix the sensor's limitations.

Interesting, I've always thought the iphone camera produces extremely good results. Subject to the obvious limitations like not being able to replace the lens! What sort of benchmarks should I be looking at, to really measure the camera's limitations?

[kuschku]

Take a look at the RAW images at full scale. Compare that with even a cheap Sony APS-C camera's RAW images.

The quality difference is massive, and not in favour of the iPhone. Apple has awesome algorithms to post-process these images, but garbage in, garbage out, you can only fix so much.

A larger sensor means you naturally get much better low light capabilities, much better bokeh, and the ability to increase the dynamic range without losing resolution.

What e.g. Google Pixels call "HDR+" is what high end Canon cameras can do at 24 frames a second, due to the higher dynamic range of their sensors and the integration of two independent gain circuits.

[unfamiliar]

I don’t think the sensor is the limiting factor for me. I am happy with the photo quality on the 15 pro. It’s the video compression. Or maybe the speed at which the sensor can offload video data.

[kuschku]

The phone has to do a significant amount of post-processing to get the sensor data to look as good as it does. With a better sensor, you'd actually have less work to do in post.

[diggan]

May I ask why ProRes isn't practical for you? Would help others to suggest a workflow that would work better than what you tried before.

[unfamiliar]

My main use case is family/holiday videos. Saving massive pro-res files would fill up the space quickly and I’m not sure how to process them into HEVC quickly and simply.

[jpc0]

Higher bitrate HEVC won't be any smaller than the same bitrate ProRes.

Why would you think that it would be?

[turnsout]

You must not have tried ProRes on the iPhone. ProRes HQ consumes around 1.7GB per minute, which is an order of magnitude more than the HEVC bitrates.

Apple: "ProRes files are up to 30 times larger than HEVC files." [1]

[1]: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212832

[dylan604]

I don't even have a clue how to force HEVC to use the same bitrate a ProRes file would use. HEVC is very efficient, and does not always use the full amount of bitrate being allowed. That's its the entire point for being. Trying to get "high bitrate" HEVC is one of those "you're holding it wrong" moments.

[jpc0]

HEVC, and H264 for that matter does have an "optimal quality" mode, which depends greatly on the source media, you could get full bitrate for highly active footage with tons of movement or you could get tiny bitrate if you are just shooting a still image for 20minutes.

They also both have inter and intra frame compression modes.

HEVC or H264 at the same bitrate in interframe mode would produce the same size files as Prores.

Regarding the comment that Apple Prores on iPhone is huge... We aren't discussing an Apple product here unless Apple bought Blackmagic while I wasn't looking.

Prores has it's use cases, go look them up, if you really just want to quickly shoot family vacation videos and not have it take up a ton of storage open the Apple camera app and hit record, the blackmagic app and Prores is likely not for you.

[dylan604]

>Regarding the comment that Apple Prores on iPhone is huge... We aren't discussing an Apple product here unless Apple bought Blackmagic while I wasn't looking.

Whathahuh? BMD just released an iOS app to use their software on an iPhone. So, which device are we talking about that isn't an Apple device?

>Prores has it's use cases, go look them up

Thanks, but I'm well aware of what ProRes is. At this point, I'm just assuming you're a troll.

[unfamiliar]

I think this is just wrong. I don’t want “the same bitrate as ProRes”, I just want higher bitrate HEVC. For example YouTube has recently added a “high bitrate 1080p” option, which is still 1080p but less compressed and therefore better quality.

[jpc0]

To understand you correctly, you want an app designed to shoot video for videographers in ProRes who usually shoot video in ProRes or raw to add low bitrate HEVC, the same low bitrate HEVC you can get in the stock camera app?

Sounds like scope creep not targeted at their intended audience.

Likewise what would be the difference between adding a 45mbps ProRes option vs adding a 45mbps hevc option? That fact it is hevc? They would take up the same storage space.

[sixothree]

Bitrate definitely is an issue for me when I use slomo. It drops frames like crazy and looks choppy.