[plorkyeran]

A life changing thing for me was specifically scheduling time to do fun things in the morning before doing the things I have to do. If I wake up at six, I still don’t start my day until eight, and instead spend those two hours on things I otherwise would have done the night before. This broke the feeling of dreading mornings that lead to a negative spiral. Even if I know most of the day will be awful, if I can look forward to my me time in the morning I can convince myself to go to bed.

[TeMPOraL]

Wish this worked for me, but my brain straight up ignores[0] any kind of alarm clocks, music, light, etc. until it's something like 10:00 in the morning, or until a person wakes me up (and checks 5-10 minutes later if I'm actually up)[1]. So, shifting time to morning turned out to be impossible to maintain when I was living alone - I could hold such schedule for maybe a week at most, gradually oversleeping more and more. Still, it was possible then and I wish I tried harder, because now it's strictly not - I have two small kids, and one true thing about them is that they always wake up earlier than you[2]. So there's no space for personal time in the morning.

Also I wonder if I'm the only one here who feels that their mind takes some 2/3 of the day to get into high gear?.It's probably more about emotional balance than cognitive functions, but I feel like I'm best able to focus only from late afternoon onward, making late night the only time that's useful for anything.

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[0] - I tried all kinds of things. Music blaring from the speakers at 06:30 sharp? Within a week, I've mastered getting up, hitting the power button on the amplifier, and falling back to bed in one, smooth move, with ballet-like fluidity. Got an alarm clock that requires you to solve math problems to turn it off? I quickly realized I must've mastered the art of multiplying 2-digit numbers in memory while unconscious, because I would wake up at 11:00 to discover multiple such alarms disabled, with no memory of doing it, or even hearing them ring.

[1] - Yes, that means business trips are especially hard for me. When traveling alone, I rely on wake-up calls from my wife (and check-ups afterward). Even with that, I still almost missed a plane once.

[2] - Except when there's an important appointment coming up that we need to get up unusually early for - on those nights, they're near-impossible to wake up.

[a96]

Sounds familiar. There's probably some sort of pineal gland feature that makes this habitual shifting essentially impossible. You just get more and more sleep deprivation combined with lying in bed not sleeping.

My ex wife told me I'd once answered her phone call in the morning and had a complete conversation only speaking absolute nonsense until she hung up. I had no recollection of that at all.

Two things that might work in these cases are melatonin and bright "sun"light in the morning. These should control the natural circadian cycle. I haven't found success, yet, but haven't tried too hard since I can live with my schedule.

[TeMPOraL]

> My ex wife told me I'd once answered her phone call in the morning and had a complete conversation only speaking absolute nonsense until she hung up. I had no recollection of that at all.

I've had that several times. The kicker is, I actually did make enough sense that she didn't suspect I wasn't awake, and it wasn't until later that I learned from her that the conversation happened - usually because I agreed to something, or was given important information, which I had no recollection of. The phone log, of course, confirmed a conversation took place.

Melatonin sounds like it may work long-term, but at this point my wakeup time is set by our kids, and my bedtime is set by my acute revenge bedtime procrastination, so sleep deprivation it is :/. I wish there was something that could immediately force/reset the circadian rhythm, which I could use on business travel.

[slothtrop]

Some people have more difficulty shifting, but that aside, some factors that feed into chronotype can be more impactful than others. If you moved to the other side of the world, you would surely shift your circadian rhythm and fall back to the habit of getting up at 10am or later, eventually (faster than you think). Sunlight is a powerful factor, but there is also timing of work, social cues, food, and preference. All of that informs tendency towards morning-ness or evening-ness.

The reason this is important is you can manipulate those factors to shift, the same way traveling several time zones away would automatically make you shift.

[ajolly]

Took me decades to learn that by shifting my meal times earlier in the day it made it significantly easier to wake up early.

Cutting out late nights snacks was vital as well.

Tons of research - search for early time restricted feeding. eTRF.

[_caw]

Hey, feel free to disregard this as I obviously don't know you.

Have you considered if you might have ADD[0]?

I know someone with identical experiences and this was the root cause. Having the diagnosis was life changing.

[0] https://add.org/adhd-test/

[TeMPOraL]

> Have you considered if you might have ADD[0]?

Yes, and thanks to HN I went in and got myself diagnosed; turns out I have ADHD, and while treating it solved a host of problems[0] and overall improved my quality of life, it did not help for the problems I mention in this thread.

Well, maybe getting my brain into high gear is much faster with stimulant meds in the mix, but it only revealed that my limiting factor isn't cognitive, but emotional - and so it often still takes me a good chunk of the day before I have all the emotions in enough of a balance to focus without fighting some anxiety.

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[0] - Or at least allowed me to overcome some major problems, and then replace them with even tougher problems.

[workfromspace]

FYI for anyone wants to try this test: it requires an email address for results (at the end of the test). Also there was only <10 questions. It didn't feel like a competent test.

[sycren]

Could devices to trigger other senses work? Like an aromatic diffuser on a timer switch that pumps out a scent, or a SAD lamp that simulates sunlight. A vibration device for the bed

[TeMPOraL]

Waking up is solved for me now - I'm married, my wife is an early bird (and our kids are the worms, they get up even earlier, or am I getting that adage wrong?), and she makes sure I get up (and stay up).

Right now, the bedtime is a problem - revenge bedtime procrastination + everyone getting used to me doing extra work overnight during some more busy times (I work remotely, so sometimes I handle kid emergencies during the day) + various other issues --> even if I had an "insta-sleep" pill, I'd have hard time getting myself to take it before 02:00.

A SAD lamp is something I'd like to try in general, maybe it'll improve my overall mood or something. I seem to function best in either near-complete darkness (i.e. only light being the screen, indicator LEDs and some street lamps in the distance outside), or very bright environments. The average brightness people I know keep at home makes me instantly sleepy, and I spend most of my cognitive resources on forcing myself to stay awake.

[bombcar]

I find when in those situations Power Nap works decently - for awhile. Luckily I only have to do it once in awhile.

I slam something high in caffeine (ice tea, soda, energy drink) and then immediately pass out. It only works if I’m already fighting staying awake.

An hour or so later I’m up again and can complete the day.

[StimDeck]

This is my solution. I try to get a 90 minute nap whenever I can, but 30 and caffeine can help too. These two numbers are important so that you don’t wake up in a REM cycle.

[sinman]

You sound a lot like me - I've even uttered the same line about multiplying two digit numbers in my sleep.

Not sure if you already tried it, but the only thing I ever found that worked was melatonin (I've tried both before bed and around 6pm). Much info here: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-th...

[abdusco]

Did you try sleeping earlier? If you regularly sleep at 01:00, then you won't be able to wake up at 06:00. If you go to sleep at 22:00 then it's not as impossible as you think.

[TeMPOraL]

Yes. If I go to sleep at 22:00, I'll be half-awake tossing in bed from 6:00, but still unable to get up until ~10:00.