[coatmatter]

Genuine conversations don't come about through being scheduled for a sit-down interview in a meeting room or lounge room - especially not when notes are being taken or they're being recorded, even if there are drinks and snacks present. Active listening is more than just storming in with a question and waiting quietly for a response before launching the next barrage.

Real conversations only happen when there's a mutual understanding of how others tick and when the most appropriate time there is to raise a likely-uncomfortable topic. I'm not going to generalise about women, but I can say that for many men, examples of such situations might include when they're out fishing, cycling, playing golf, or just doing any other hobby that allows one to be "distracted" most times with silence.

Silence is very awkward in sit-down situations where you're "forced" to converse, but not if there's another activity as the main alibi. It's okay to go out fishing and not catch a fish. It's okay to go fishing and not say a word. But it's also okay to start talking freely once both parties are ready for it at a future mystery time and location.

[JackMorgan]

I don't know anyone who fishes, bikes, or plays golf. I suspect this is the reason many people are critically lonely. There's just no place to be with other people and talk.

Perhaps women are culturally more comfortable going out for coffee or running errands together. For all the men I know that would be super weird.

Shame. We need to find new ways to just be together.

[RugnirViking]

Things that have worked for me:

- Cooking with friends. Doesn't have to be coded female, just ask, if you're all excited about some nice chinese dish or nice cut of beef you got people will vibe with it

- Making music with friends. It takes a really long time, we almost never finish any recordings, and end up just chatting

- Playing dnd with friends (and sitting around drinking afterwards)

- generally, drinking

- card games. We don't bet, but im sure that would work too

- camping/hiking

- watching football/cricket/long sports together

[giantg2]

Who has the time? We're all grinding to make money. Occasionally I play some online games with friends, but you'd be surprised how many times some of them can't make it because they're working OT to cover child support.

[uoaei]

I have the time. I'm not "grinding". Life is more than what other people tell you your priorities should be.

[watwut]

Running errands together means socializing and doing chores at the same time. Anecdotally, I have seen that arrangements among some wen I know - even cleaning one of their house together and next week another house. Mutual help in boring works and socialization at the same time.

[giantg2]

True, I've done that for some projects. With the crazy schedules though, it can be tough to coordinate for routine chores.

[thaumasiotes]

> because they're working OT to cover child support.

Isn't child support a percentage of earnings?

[giantg2]

Most places calculate it as a percentage of earnings with some other factors included at a single point in time (resetting takes other petitons and seems to rarely happen). But that percentage is translated into a dollar amount and is basically set in stone from that point on. Lost your job? Tough shit, keep paying while you look for a new one.

Now imagine you're deployed and earning hazard pay when they set that initial dollar amount. Then a couple years later you're not earning that same pay because you're in the reserves. Now you have to work OT at your civilian job to make the payments and support yourself because the way the courts handle child support is ridiculous.

[jstarfish]

You can petition for reevaluation every 3 years. Changing support obligations is not that hard. Changing custody is.

Your scenario is equally real for salespeople. Income is imputed based on last 3 years' earnings. If you get laid off and your spouse abandons you, you're expected to continue paying out based on your peak earnings. If the last few years were good to you, your next few will be hell.

It's not a good system but there aren't really any solutions that can't be gamed by the men.

[giantg2]

"You can petition for reevaluation every 3 years."

Yeah, but it's basically at the whim of the judge. As you mentioned the gaming part, it seems they tend to be biased against many adjustments by thinking it's being gamed.

It's absolutely ridiculous to think this is a good system though. In my mind, you're better off letting some gaming occur than to force people into impossible positions. Not to mention, the current system does nothing to curtail the gaming done by the lower income spouse, women who have multiple children from different partners, or true cost of raising the child vs what someone gets.

[klowner]

Yep, kinda drives home the point of how important "third spaces" are for mental health.