[beerdoggie]

The argument no one has brought up yet: why should society have to pay up even more for breeders' personal choices?

People without kids have to pay higher taxes (via rebates for parents), utilize less resources (public schools), effectively subsidizing people who want to have kids.

I'm all for protecting what's best for children, but I am not happy with people having children they cannot adequately support, causing other people to need to pay for them.

[InitialLastName]

> why should society have to pay up even more for breeders' personal choices?

Because those children, when adequately nurtured (and proportional to the extent to which they are adequately nurtured), grow up to produce goods, provide services, and pay taxes that support the portion of society that can no longer do those things for money (which, with any luck, you will be one day).

There is plenty of reason to believe that the ROI of society subsidizing that nurturing is enormous, not to mention the second-order effects of that subsidy (like parents being able to balance their budgets more easily, consume goods and services other than childcare, and save for their own retirements such that they are more able to support themselves when they, also, become too old to work for pay).

[loco5niner]

Honestly, parents are doing (or should be doing) the majority of the work in training up the next generation.

Not to be harsh here, but non-parents (which I was for a very long time) are the ones kind of freeloading here.

[avgDev]

This is such a bad take.

Reproducing is such an important part of a society and humanity in general. Imagine everyone decided to be child free, what do you think would happen to the country you live in?

Countries with negative population growth often offer incentives for people to have kids because it can cause economic issues down the road and negative growth of the economy.

I would argue people without kids are freeloaders, all the "breeders" working full time jobs not only have to work but then go home and raise their kids to be productive members of the society.

The actual costs of raising a child are absolutely insane. Daycare cost alone is $20K a year for 4 years. That is enough to be a millionaire if you were to invest it in your early 20s. I'm not even going to talk how much time it takes out of your own life because its depressing.

[polpenn]

Why should people who don’t own cars pay for highways?

Why should cyclist have to pay for public transportation?

Also children now will be your future doctor, nurse, bus driver, scientist, plumber, etc. so probably worthwhile making an investment in public goods that support their development.

[pj_mukh]

Sure let’s do that.

But as part of the deal let’s make sure $0 off of the economic output of the offspring of “breeders” goes to your Medicare or social security.

Deal?

[bryanlarsen]

You have to also include massive inflation during their retirement years too. If there are very few workers available the cost of everything is going to skyrocket.

[sct202]

My perspective is that someone has to raise the next generation of people who I will need to pay to take care of me when I'm old, so I'm fine subsidizing them. Raising kids is a lot of work and money.

[0xParlay]

Another challenge. Where's the grand-parents? Where's the rest of the family and the local community? The "village" so to speak.

Day care is just the start of it. Being raised broke and working class isn't all that bad. Not being raised with a sense of community and security.. Might as well add prison capacity now for our little social experiment on raising social primates with the goals of independence from society.

[lancesells]

You know your parents were "breeders" right?

[xboxnolifes]

> The argument no one has brought up yet: why should society have to pay up even more for breeders' personal choices?

Because "breeders" are the foundation of society. The most fundamental part of an on-going society.

[beerdoggie]

These replies are all hilarious. It's a foregone conclusion in all of your minds that we need to continue scaling up our population to drive our economy.

Humans don't deserve to destroy the earth just so they can keep their ego projects going.

[netcraft]

I understand where you are coming from. I am curious though if you feel differently after watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBudghsdByQ (I did)

[lukeasch21]

I knew exactly which video you linked before I even clicked on it. Very timely! (Why Korea is Dying Out - Kurzgesagt – In a Nutshell)

[omginternets]

The entire point is to incentivize people to have children.

[ourmandave]

Seems if the state is going to mandate 10-year-old rape victims have children, then they should provide some sort of childcare system too.

[true_religion]

Does the state force people to maintain their children?

I believe you can always give your children up for adoption so long as all guardians agree to it.

It's not commonly desirable but it's what one would recommend for extreme circumstances like you stated.

[foogazi]

Sorry that you are not happy

Our society need people to throw at the money making machine

Time to start paying for them

[blactuary]

How many fedoras do you own?