[benterix]

> We should be an absolute beacon of morality and principles with a stellar track record to criticise ... other countries. That is not the case yet, so let's work on that.

I completely disagree. We can have many problems but when another country, say, invades another one, we should respond appropriately. Waiting until everybody becomes crystal will never work because it's never going to happen.

> (or even, instill change through violence in)

This is a completely different issue, and it is always wrong, no matter who does it, whether it's CIA in South America or Putin's agents in Ukraine. I haven't seen a single case where "instilling change through violence" brought any benefit, but I saw several cases where it completely ruined whole countries, see the so-called Arab spring.

[Eisenstein]

> I haven't seen a single case where "instilling change through violence" brought any benefit

The American Revolution? The Civil War?