[zoogeny]

It does bother me when that hate is directed at anyone who might make the decision to return to the office when faced with a RTO policy from their employer. The author is plainly saying such people are dehumanizing themselves.

I would hate to see that kind of contempt for others spread, especially for a compromise that a large majority of people will probably make.

I'm not a saint myself, but I would prefer if popular articles on the subject urged us to look at others with empathy.

[revlolz]

I did not infer any contempt from the author towards everyday people who are forced to capitulate. The author empathized with the hardest hit victims in this target: h1b workers. Those who cannot simply 'play chicken' without risking deportation. There was no contempt or hate in these words or I feel like the sentiment would have been 'they are getting what they deserve... '

I agree completely with this author about the dehumanizing nature of these rto mandates. They completely forbid and outlaw natural human development/growth without risk to your career. Did anything in your life change? Well, I guess you need to start looking for a new career even though you've demonstrated over x years that you can accomplish your work remote.

It's so obvious the majority of these mandates are for dehumanizing purposes to force people to quit, gain tax incentives, impress power upon subordinates, or benefit commercial real estate holders. Hate and contempt towards the selfish leaders here is totally warranted. Disdain towards fickle middle managers lacking backbone would also be understandable in my opinion.

[zoogeny]

> forced to capitulate

There it is again. As if it isn't possible for people to just, you know, decide that it is fine and move on with their lives? Are they really "forced to capitulate"?

I recall working in an office building for a small software company. Due to the growth, the company had people working in hallways. Soon after I joined the company moved offices so they could have more space. The new building was on the other side of town. That would increase the commute for a lot of workers, like adding one hour plus to their lives. Some opted to leave the company.

Was everyone else "forced to capitulate"?

> I agree completely with this author about the dehumanizing nature of these rto mandates.

You don't agree with the quote I pulled. The author isn't calling the "nature of these rto mandates" dehumanizing. He is explicitly saying that the people who submit to this are dehumanizing themselves.

[bookaway]

>As if it isn't possible for people to just, you know, decide that it is fine and move on with their lives?

You seem to be insisting on a bad faith reading of the post despite people pointing out there is a good faith reading that doesn't make the author himself out to be the asshole. The HN guidelines, may I remind you, guides you to assume good faith when responding to what people write.

The post is specifically addressed to people who prefer remote to RTO, and who feel completely trapped because of the ultimatum. This is understood in the way he emphasizes how remote in these companies was in fact possible pre-pandemic, but ironically is no longer an option post-pandemic due to the ultimatum. You do realize the the people who prefer the office are already...at the office? hence there is no ultimatum directed at them at all? Hence no way for them to be dehumanized by an ultimatum that wasn't addressed to them in the first place?

[revlolz]

You may be interested in the addendum the author posted.

https://soatok.blog/2023/10/02/return-to-office-is-bullshit-...

""" Addendum

After I posted this, it made the front page of Hacker News and was subsequently posted in quite a few places. After reading some of the comments, I realize a few subtleties in my word choice didn’t come across, so I’d like to clarify them.

When I say “RTO is bullshit”, I don’t mean “office work is bullshit” or anything negative about people that prefer in-person office work. I mean “the forced relocation implementation of transitioning a whole company to never-remote (a.k.a. RTO) is bullshit”.

If working in an office is better for you, rock on. I don’t have any issue with that. The bullshit is the actions taken by company’s leadership teams in absence of (or often in spite of) hard data on remote work versus in-person work. The bullshit is changing remote worker’s employment agreements without their consent and threatening “voluntary resignation” as the only alternative (even though that’s pretty obviously constructive dismissal).

When I discussed ultimatums above, I’m specifically referring to actual ultimatums, not colloquial understandings of the word. If you can talk with the person and negotiate with them, it’s not a goddamn ultimatum. What I was faced with was an actual ultimatum: Comply or suffer. I chose freedom.

Hope that helps. """

I still agree completely post-addendum. I'm not sure if you've been faced with RTO/RTT, but I have, even though I had exclusively negotiated with my employer for full remote. They've done nothing but coerce compliance to their new RTT/RTO mandates and it's absolutely dehumanizing. The corporate overlords demand full and total capitulation or else you are fired. It doesn't matter I negotiated specifically to be full remote prior, have RSUs vesting part of my compensation, or that I pivoted my entire life and career to be here! In essence, 'capitulation' is the perfect word to use for this nonsensical regression of workplace flexibility because people are being coerced. So what, you had a successful in-office experience prior to covid, its irrelevant here in all honesty. This greater discussion at hand has little to do with workers indifferent to or in favor of returning to office workspaces.

[spacemadness]

Where are you coming up with this? The author is not hating anyone that returns to the office. They called tech leadership assholes, so what? I think that’s fair game. The reasons why are explained well enough.