[pakitan]

Why not reduce speed to 10km/h then? Even fewer people will be killed! This is the covid logic all over again. Let's lock everyone in their homes, we can't afford to have old people dying!

Also, no, ICE cars generally don't pollute less at 30km/h, compared to 50km/h. Engine does the same work, just at lower gear.

[mcv]

> Why not reduce speed to 10km/h then? Even fewer people will be killed!

It depends on how the street is used. There are places where maximum speed is 10 km/h. I grew up in the street like that: a "woonerf", a residential area where the street is explicitly meant for playing children, and cars have to go at pedestrian speeds of 5 or 10 km/h. The goal these is to not lock up kids in their homes, but encourage them to play outside, which is great. These were fairly new but popular in the 1980s and late 1970s, but not so common anymore, sadly.

30 km/h is roughly the speed bicycle of bicycles and similar vehicles. Not suitable for playing kids, but more suitable for mixed through traffic. Driving through an entire city at 10 km/h would be as tedious as walking that entire distance, but 30 km/h is very doable.

[Vinnl]

Doesn't really affect your point, but AFAIK the maximum speed on a woonerf is 15 km/h.

[phanimahesh]

Let's make it so that cars don't have to dictate peoples movements so that people won't feel personally attacked by regulations slowing card around pedestrians, kids, and elderly in residential areas.

[matsemann]

Did you see the graph in my comment? There's a steep curve beginning a bit over 30 km/h. Hence great impact per km/h reduction at those higher speeds. Not as much when going even even lower. Most people don't think in extremes, and are actually capable to think of the various tradeoffs. No need to be so hyperbolic..

I'd like some streets to be 20 km/h as well, though. But that is because those streets should be for pedestrians / kids / those living there, and not for traffic.

[pakitan]

I saw the graph. It's probably crap, given that there is 5% death rate at 0km/h but let's take it at face value and let's say we implement 30km/h limit. Then there will inevitably be people claiming "death rate can be reduced by another 40% if we were just responsible enough to reduce the limit even further, to 10km/h". That's not hyperbole, that's exactly the way events unfolded near the end of the covid epidemic. Under the "every life is important" slogan, there was massive strain imposed on everyone, just to have a tiny % of old people die next year instead of this one.

Of course there should be 10 or 20km/h limits on certain streets, no one is arguing about that. We're talking about city-wide limits. Here, if I was driving at 30km/h on a main city road, I'd be lynched and rightfully so.

[matsemann]

At ~0km/h kids are unfortunately still dying, mainly being backed over by their own family.

The rest of your argument is basically a slippery slope fallacy and not even close to what's happening in any urban planning discussion I've ever been a part of. And I'm on the board of an organization discussing these things.

[michaelhoney]

your first paragraph is a needless exaggeration, and your second is demonstrably untrue. Calm down and recognise that this change will result in quieter, safer streets. There’s nothing to be threatened by.

[Muromec]

Ban ICE cars altogether while we are on it!

https://www.amsterdam.nl/verkeer-vervoer/milieuzone-amsterda...