[Fnoord]

Geez, what a negative take on a company who do their best to be environment-friendly.

I got quite some corrosion on the headphone jack of my Raspberry Pi 2B. Not sure why. But either way, these adapters can be bought anywhere, and they'll work on other devices as well. Like I said, I didn't use mine much. Usually Bluetooth with an adequate profile is good enough. I doubt people hear the difference between Bluetooth adequate profile and 3.5 mm in a double blind test.

[monopoliessuck]

Apple's omission was the same garbage about complexity and space, yet no one in the real world had these problems. Apple is making a killing on Bluetooth accessories and adapters which have a much much higher markup than phones. Do you buy that SD cards or removable batteries were "too complicated" and bloaty for the end-user too?

If you're trying to differente yourself from Apple, it seems like a no brainer to include a jack especially since USB ports are needed for charging, battery case accessories, data transfer etc. all of which can't be done while listening to music.

On top of that, a "wobbly" USB port is like the top issue with phones outside of a cracked screen and an analog port is way more resilient to always being plugged in while in your pocket than any USB adapter ever will be.

My wired headset is going to outlive whatever bluetooth sealed-in battery garbage "works today until it doesn't" too so "environmentally friendly" needs an asterisk.

This is Fairphone playing copy apple. You can like Fairphone and their mission, but giving them a pass here is just playing into marketing bs.

[Fnoord]

Wobbly USB port is an issue of the past with microUSB and lightning. USB-C does not have this issue as the weight lies on the cable.

Batteries in some Bluetooth headsets can be replaced. There are iFixit guides available.

Most customers use terrible quality SD cards, and then QQ about them breaking. A burden for CS.

The exterior case design of FP4 and FP5 copies Samsung rather than Apple.

[monopoliessuck]

An always plugged in port risks damage and a damaged USB port makes your phone a brick, not so for an analog port that is inarguably more resilient.

Every major vendor's earbuds and most of their headsets aren't battery-replacable. This complexity moves outside the phone and onto the user when all of this was handled reliably by "lesser" hardware of yore. None of this makes Bluetooth headsets an impossibility.

SD Card upsells are so obviously upsells, come on. Yes using shoddy peripherals can lead to a bad experience and they're replaceable for a reason. You seem to be going out of your way to bias the corporate position. Using low quality batteries risks far more, should Fairphone epoxy their batteries in to save the customer from that too?

Killing of the aux port was an Apple signature move. Whether or not the case looks like Samsung is not the true legacy of this courageous stance.

This just seems very evasive.

[Fnoord]

> An always plugged in port risks damage and a damaged USB port makes your phone a brick, not so for an analog port that is inarguably more resilient.

Doubt it, there is no data to support this with regards to Fairphone 4 and 5. You'd think that if there was a negative data point on that, there'd be tons and tons of CS reports on it. On the contrary; Fairphone 4 has very little CS support requirement and returns. In contrast to other phones, as well as Fairphone 2 (which was, by Fairphone's own [paraphrased] words, a CS disaster).

Either way, the USB-C port on Fairphone 4 and 5 is easily replaced.

> SD Card upsells are so obviously upsells, come on. Yes using shoddy peripherals can lead to a bad experience and they're replaceable for a reason.

eMMC is more reliable. Practically everyone is using these consumer grade (micro)SD cards. You get what you pay for.

> Every major vendor's earbuds and most of their headsets aren't battery-replacable.

Oh that is weird cause this guide is marked as Easy and a major brand [1]

[1] https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Sony+WF-1000XM3+Battery+Replace...

[monopoliessuck]

You need the phone upside down in your pocket to plug it in and a new USB headset to boot. The Apple and Samsungs of the world in their ubiquity have changed the ecosystem.

It's not surprising that if you make using my old headset difficult, I and millions of others will move to buying a wireless alternative — they're counting on it. That's what happened and the sales numbers mirror that. People throw away way more audio equipment today than they ever have.

The fact that these Sony earbuds happen to be replaceable is quite a bit different than them being _designed_ as user-replicable. You found a community member that uploaded a video showing you how to do it, now show me the manufacturer's documentation explaining how it's done.

This exists for watches and cameras, but we have been lulled into throwing battery operated things away as a cultural migration pattern and Fairphone is aware and complicit in this indirectly and unnecessarily.

I get it, you either work for or just really dig Fairphone. Glad you found a company you like so much.

[Fnoord]

> It's not surprising that if you make using my old headset difficult, I and millions of others will move to buying a wireless alternative — they're counting on it. That's what happened and the sales numbers mirror that. People throw away way more audio equipment today than they ever have.

Hehe, well there's converters which add Bluetooth to devices like keyboards. Surely you can get one to work on your 3.5 mm device so you're up to par? /runs

Honestly, I've been a 3.5 mm user for a lot of years in my life, and I actually love listening to my little WF-1000XM3. In fact, they're more safe to wear before I fall asleep. Because I won't be able to suffocate due to wires. Also, back in those days where I often used 3.5 mm cables I often had cable breakage at the choke points (point of entry and near the speakers). I used to burn through a couple of headsets a year as kid! I'm not missing that at all. But cool enough, Fairphone actually had a 3.5 mm headphones where you could detach the cable to replace it. And a third example: with ambient sound I can do stuff like dishes, open front door, or make up my bed without using a wire and without being attached to anything.

Do you know about VR by chance? Do people like being connected with VR, or do they prefer to be not connected? The latter ehhh..? Cause it is more convenient, that is why.

> The fact that these Sony earbuds happen to be replaceable is quite a bit different than them being _designed_ as user-replicable. You found a community member that uploaded a video showing you how to do it, now show me the manufacturer's documentation explaining how it's done.

I don't give a shit what Sony's take on it is. iFixit guide is enough for me.

> This exists for watches and cameras

Both of which are type of device which is now redundant.

> I get it, you either work for or just really dig Fairphone. Glad you found a company you like so much.

shrug and you're on the of them 3.5 mm loudmouths? :)

[rany_]

It is true though, lest we forget that Samsung managed to make the Galaxy S5 IP67 water resistant... this phone meanwhile is IP57 rated, which is actually even worse. If they tell you "it's harder with the headphone jack" that's not a good enough reason either, just try harder; it's not worth omitting when we know it is possible.

Samsung was able to pull this off with the S5 A DECADE AGO:

- removable back

- removable battery

- headphone jack

- SD card slot

- IP67 water resistant

This is an anti-environment moneygrab plain and simple. They omit the headphone jack so that they sell you the solution, which just so happens to be their brand of wireless headphones, dongle, whatever... if you actually like FairPhone you'd criticize them over this bullocks instead of being an uncritical parrot.

[seized]

And to be fair, those phones quickly got to the point where the flap over the USB port would break or not seal. And the back would get loose, because Samsung ruined the OS so it needed frequent battery removed reboots. And the finger print sensor wouldn't work if your finger had been near water in the last 12 hours. So it had constant warnings about the above.

The S8 I had was the low point of Android ownership for me.

[Fnoord]

Fairphones are more bulky because they are modular, are easy to open, and don't use glue. If there is space for 3.5mm you might have a point.

I would prefer two USB-C over one USB-C plus one 3.5mm. It would be more useful to a lot of customers.

[rany_]

> If there is space for 3.5mm you might have a point.

I don't think you get it. The reason why there isn't any space for 3.5mm now is because they didn't want to add it, they could add the space if they so choose. This is not a problem you should think about, it should be the designer/engineer/etc's concern to figure out how to fit it in.

It is normal for there to not be any space in portable electronics, that just means they've utilized all the space they had optimally; it doesn't mean they can't add more features and redesign it to accommodate the jack.

[Fnoord]

I think I get it perfectly fine. We just seem to disagree on the necessity and the viable alternative (two USB-C).

[maigret]

Very often you’ll get a better sound with Bluetooth because the DAC and electronics can be perfectly matched to the specific headphone acoustics.

[bigstrat2003]

I don't think there's anything "environmentally friendly" about making users have an extra dongle to get basic functionality.

[Tom4hawk]

I personally know absolutely no one with a dongle. I know many people who still use phones with jack that are not using it (or have earbuds). I was using wireless headphones before anyone heard of "earbuds" - they are much more convenient in situations where I'm using headphones. Of course, it's anecdotal but it seems that there are much more people like me/my friends than people missing Jack...

[bigstrat2003]

IMO the biggest utility of a headphone jack is not for earbuds, it's that it enables you to play music from your phone on basically any device made in the last 30 years. Want to hook up to some random stereo? No problem, you can do it. Want to play music in your car, but you have one of the many cars without Bluetooth? Easy. There's a lot to be said for having a damn near universal audio connector. Bluetooth is nice, but it's not there yet in terms of ubiquity.

My personal use case for the headphone jack is playing music in my car. My car doesn't even have an aux input (I have to use a cassette adapter), let alone Bluetooth. And when I'm on a long drive, being able to play music while charging is a must. I will only very rarely hook up a pair of wired earbuds to my phone, but I absolutely must have a headphone jack.

[Tom4hawk]

I'm not claiming that there is no use for Jack. I just think that this is a niche and doesn't require a separate connector in every smartphone. Having a universal connector that can be used for various niche scenarios is IMO enough. We should push for improvements in that regard (e.g. make it easy to charge the phone and use the dongle at the same time).

I wish I had the same problem as you do with your car. Mine is old enough that it doesn't have Bluetooth (I'm not the first owner and Bluetooth was an "extra" in this model) but new enough that there is no cassette player (and no built-in aux input) :)

[Fnoord]

Only if you think in absolutes. We shouldn't; we should view the issue in birdview, pragmatically with all pros and cons. The people for whom 3.5mm is a dealbreaker are loud, but seem rather minor if we look at the general market.