Ask HN: What am I missing about ambition?

[ananonone]

Anon, obviously.

I'm about to leave a job I've been at for a long time after being given little to no support and direction and treated poorly wrt advancement, project allocation, etc. I just keep seeing the people I respect leaving and the people I don't respect getting promoted, over and over again. Clearly, I'm missing something about corporate ambition or how to comport myself to be recognized for me efforts by management... my peers all respect me and I know I've done good work. Maybe I'm just in a dysfunctional place, but I also want to give things the benefit of the doubt.

This is a serious, general question though. I feel like I just don't get something about the managerial environment. Why do incompetent people continuously get promoted into roles they are objectively, obviously failing at?

[jogog]

In the corporate world, typically, advancement is about putting yourself out there, bragging about your work, exaggerating your achievements, taking credit for others' work if you can get away with it, and just generally being a duplicitous shit while giving the facade of the opposite.

Good for you that you didn't play the game.

I didn't either, then quit, took a couple of months to recover from the burnout, and joined a smaller, newer business run by honest people where my contributions were valued and I wasn't surrounded by ruthless, unscrupulous cunts. Fuck the corporate environment, and one well-known tech giant in particular.

[ananonone]

Sounds gtm, I’m also heading somewhere smaller and hopefully healthier.

[bavarianbob]

> I just keep seeing the people I respect leaving and the people I don't respect getting promoted, over and over again.

I resonate to this feeling and how I reflected on my own experience was that it isn't me, it's the company. As others have mentioned, relationships are king. In some companies, it's likely you're not going to make relationships with the decision makers and that's not a reflection of who you are.

Thinking this is an ambition problem is self-blame and is unfair to yourself.

[ananonone]

Thanks, the more I think about it the more this feels like the most salient point. Over the last few years, the people with sway who I had (and still have, albeit outside of the workplace) good mutual respect and rapport have made themselves scarce, moving to other verticals or leaving the company entirely... I guess I shouldn't be surprised that over time this just leaves less of them in management. It's sad but the truth is I'm just also ready to leave this org to the B minus suck ups and corporate ball washers so I can go actually make something again.

Thanks for commiserating

[kstenerud]

In the end, relationships are king in ALL organizations. The stronger the relationships you forge with various people who hold power, the more you'll advance.

Performance comes a distant second. A high performer is an impersonal thing; a tool to be used. A friend is someone to trust and work with. You can be both (and you need to be if you care about doing a good job), but the relationship aspect is MUCH more important.

[jjgreen]

You are observing the Peter principle in action: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

[ananonone]

I forgot about that one! Absolutely this.

[mytailorisrich]

My guess: You are missing that building relationships with the right people and politics in general are critical.

[kidgorgeous]

^^^^. It's a you problem, not a them problem. My guess is you think the value add is providing technical expertise, while it's really schmoozing with tech mixed in somehow. Adapt or die

[ananonone]

Guess I’ll die! :,)

But yeah I mean, clearly I did it wrong, thing is I thought I understood how this works, but I guess I just didn’t know how to pick the “right” people in this context. All the people I have good relationships with are either long gone or my peers

[mytailorisrich]

You need to observe and learn about the organisation. Who's in charge of what? Who's senior? Who seems to make things happen?

You need to network up and do self-promotion. Your peers have no influence on work allocation and promotions apart from contributing to your reputation with the higher ups by reporting that you did this or that, and that you are the expert in this or that.

[Quinzel]

I sometimes think it’s because of the Dunning Kruger effect - that the people with the least amount of knowledge/skills just have an overconfidence about themselves - and overconfidence is something a lot of managers seem to have. In contrast, a lot of the people I think would actually be good managers don’t want to be managers because they either don’t think they would do it well, or they just can’t be bothered with the shit that comes with being a manager.