[bandyaboot]

> Even someone with infinite resources cannot do what a company selling something for a profit can because they are either ultimately captured by and beholden to some other interest other than the product itself, or constitutionally lack the energy to be daring and actually compete. Imagine what someone could do with a Firefox sold for a profit because of its superior functionality and superior efficiency.

turns on imagination…Firefox eventually goes all-in on making profit from selling user data and making advertising deals after they realize that the vast majority of users are totally fine with the default and other free options and have no interest in paying for your product.

[pexabit]

Yeah advertising is a failure mode of what I said.

But if Firefox ever decided to make a lot of money by selling good browsers at a high price to paying users, well I think the result would be quite interesting.

[akho]

The reason that doesn’t happen is that that business model is not viable in the presence of alternatives. The “quite interesting result” would be that there wouldn’t be a Firefox anymore.

Selling software is not a novel idea.

[pexabit]

I pay for my mail client (MailMate). I pay for my search(FoxTrot Search). I pay for my spam filter (Spamsieve). I pay for my notetaking/archival (Eagle Filer). I pay for my network monitoring (Little Snitch). There are alternatives to a lot of these they just aren't very good, in some cases astonishingly bad.

And I would pay an enormous amount of money for a browser that worked well that had features I've always imagined a browser should have. And I don't expect anyone to make that for me without the reward of getting nice stuff for doing so.

No one would bat an eye if Firefox were no more since there are other browsers more or less just as good, more or less just as bad. It's an immemorable product, the consumer surplus of which compared to the best alternative is very low.

[wkat4242]

You're what's called an outlier. As a tech enthusiast you appreciate software.

I pay for FreeBSD and KDE. Because I believe in them. But I don't want them to make a profit. Once they do, the people receiving that profit will want to see a rising trend. Because business believes that a steady profit is decline, there must be growth at all costs. Once they reached the limit of what the market will bear, the focus shifts from giving the customer what they need to extracting as much value from them as possible. This is a death spiral because extracted value can never be infinite. The result is the phenomenon we now call enshittification.

The lack of a profit-driven approach is the only sustainable way to avoid this in the long run. Sooner or later it will always happen. Even if you have intelligent and ethical investors (which are extremely rare) sooner or later some sharks will buy it.

In fact the phase where a product truly has the customers' interests in mind is usually not very profitable but instead a gamble by investors, sacrificing short-term profits with the goal of extracting much more from the customer once they believe in the product and are too locked-in to leave.

[akho]

If you want to provide “features” commercially, it’s much easier to just use Chrome’s engine. The point of Firefox, at this time, is that we have at least one alternative implementation.

MailMate is closed source donationware with a bus factor of 1, which is just hilarious. As I understand it, the “sell a mail client for a one-time payment” model turned out to be insufficient to support the single developer, leading to the whole “patron of a for-profit company” theme.