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by ianbutler 1000 days ago
Society's ills? I think we're talking about just SF. The rest of the nation seems to handle things at a better rate, per my comment about NYC where I live. So what is special about SF except lax rule of law?

I agree heavy sentences and private jails and, what is clearly a planned system to take offenders and make sure they can't re integrate into society are terrible and we need reform in the jail system.

Policing, as a deterrent, and arresting for petty crime however are effective. The threat of punishment is an effective deterrent. The fact we have a draconian system after that point is unfortunate, but if I understand SF doesn't even present the threat.
1 comments
mattdeboard 1000 days ago
> The threat of punishment is an effective deterrent.

> [Police] arresting for petty crime however [is] effective

Incorrect. These are myths that people fall back on when they want to advocate for the same policy positions that have produced worse social outcomes for at least the past 40 years. The same thing, over and over again, driven by the belief that punishment must be involved to deter crime.

The threat of punishment has zero effect on deterrence. "Certainty of being caught" apparently does, but as you build a police force that makes getting caught of committing a crime a certainty, you have already fallen into the same trap America (and her cities) fall into over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/247350.pdf

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ianbutler 1000 days ago
"1. The certainty of being caught is a vastly more powerful deterrent than the punishment. Research shows clearly that the chance of being caught is a vastly more effective deterrent than even draconian punishment. "

That's my point, and it was the first bullet point in what you linked. Can't be worried about being caught if there is no policing.

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mattdeboard 999 days ago
Right, and that's why I said:

> "Certainty of being caught" apparently does [provide a deterrent effect], but as you build a police force that makes getting caught of committing a crime a certainty, you have already fallen into the same trap America (and her cities) fall into over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Police aren't a solution. They're a problem. That's not to say there's no UPSIDE. It's to say there are trade-offs and I think they have been proven by history to be unfavorable trade-offs in the long view.

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