[ostenning]

> I think $MS is innovating in some areas that, if nothing changes, Apple will ape to great fanfare in a few years

IMO too late. Pretty much my entire network that I'm aware of refuses to use Microsoft anything - Windows, Teams, Visual Studio, .NET etc. The only exception to that are gamers but these people seem less and less as we all get older.

I enjoyed writing C# back in the day, its a great language, but I probably never will again.

[eknkc]

On the other hand, VsCode dominates the basic editor space. TypeScript basically became the standard in web development. GitHub is MS, NPM is MS. .net is now open source and I'd not be surprised if it starts getting popular again.

I'd say they are in a better place in terms of developer relations and perception compared to a couple years ago. Might be my network bias though.

[nemacol]

I think this says more about corporate consolidation than innovation at Microsoft.

[kkoste]

> Apple will ape to great fanfare in a few years

This I don't get. Microsoft is copying Apple in this case. When you use OSX then you are more or less obligated to have an iCloud account. And then they ask you if you want to have iCloud+.

What is difference between Apple and pestering me with getting iCloud and Microsoft pestering me with getting Microsoft 365.

Both are convenient and provide great value and a better UX.

[mplanchard]

What about VSCode? Seems like almost all the devs I know use it, regardless of their feelings about Microsoft products otherwise.

[PlutoIsAPlanet]

VSCode is popular due to the lack of a free alternative with the same feature set.

Jetbrains Fleet is already looking to be a let down, with it being a larger resource hog by VSCode.

[explorigin]

Jetbrains justifies the cost for me. I can easily recoup the cost in productivity over VSCode.

[nicce]

If you project is big enough, resource cost is more reasonable. VSCode starts lagging while Jetbrains products can scroll file with 500k lines without problem.

[Pannoniae]

In my experience, it's mostly the less experienced use it. It's electron shovelware, with horrible typing latency and memory usage.

No matter how hard MS wants to push it, those don't change. If I need a text editor I use one, if I need a full IDE I use those. This Frankenstein abomination has zero purpose.

[cassianoleal]

The vast majority of people I work with use VS Code, from recent graduates to very senior and seasoned devs, myself included.

I don't like Microsoft, and before VS Code I had high hopes for Atom. VS Code became nearly everything I wanted on an editor.

I could never get used to "full IDEs". I find them awkward and I always feel constrained by them, not in a good way.

I experience zero typing latency on VS Code (and I'm very sensitive to that). Granted, memory usage could be better but along with the browser it's my main work tool so I don't mind much that it uses a considerable amount, as long as it doesn't bog down my machine.

Of course, to each their own. I hate Microsoft as much as the next person and I wish someone would step in and give me a modular editor with extensive LSP support and an excellent extensions marketplace to replace it. I would consider paying for such a product if it was adequate.

I had high hopes that Jetbrains Fleet would be that product, but after having tried its pre-release a few times I'm not holding my breath.

I say all this as a former hardcore emacs user.

[keyle]

Same path. On a mac I've been using Zed. If you're on a mac you could consider it. On the downside it's back to lldb for debugging, but that's not a big deal.

[snoopen]

I love Linux and despise $MS in general. VS Code is the only thing from them I genuinely enjoy using. Since most of it is open source I have some confidence it will escape the usual $MS enshitification, or at least VS Codium. There's just not anything I've come across that's as versatile.