[kyteland]

It is regulated. If it looks like a die in a game of chance then it is a fair die. If it looks like a deck of cards, it is a fair deck of cards. This is written into the gambling laws of each regulated gaming jurisdiction.

And like most regulations, these rules exist precisely because someone tried exactly this scheme at some point. And the regulators saw it and said "Oh hell no" and made a rule. As the saying goes, regulations are written in blood.

Source: Casino game developer and mathematician for 20+ years.

[currymj]

as I understand it, they are allowed to get pretty creative with the odds on "reel" type video slot machines.

the odds of a given outcome have to match the published odds in the payout table, but the animated reels don't have to be an accurate physical simulation of reels -- they are allowed to make it look like there was a "near miss" of a jackpot for instance.

[bluesign]

normally it is something like: it looks like poker (single player) but with some bonus side game/bet added to add more edge to casino, where it tries to give you an illusion that you have more chance.

[notpushkin]

Does it apply to video slot machines as well? Is there some leeway?

[andy800]

The majority of game mathematicians work on video slot machines. These games have somewhat complex payout structures, seeing that they may have 40 or 50 "lines" (directions in which identical symbols trigger a payout), one or more "scattered symbol" prizes (payouts based on the appearance of a minimum number of special symbols, regardless of lining up), wild symbols, multiple progressive jackpots (individual and shared), one or more bonus games, free spins (often at an increased payout multiple, with the possibility of triggering jackpots), and possibly more gameplay features.

Incorporating all of these features into a single games with an acceptable "hold percentage" (theoretical percentage of wagers that result in casino profit) that is still fun to play that gives players a feel that they have a good chance of winning and generates repeat play, is a difficult task that every slot machine vendor is trying to achieve, and the mathematicians are tasked with balancing frequency of payouts with amount of payouts to keep players playing.

Right now Aristocrat Gaming is the most successful, they have the most titles (and the top spots) on industry-wide slot performance surveys.

[kyteland]

It applies to all regulated gambling devices in a jurisdiction that has that rule. Virtual dice/card decks must behave like a fair version of their physical counterpart. And they basically all have that rule because Nevada has it. Every manufacturer wants to sell in Nevada and they only want to make one version of their software, so even if some places doesn't have that rule it's highly likely that the game still behaves that way anyway.

[edanm]

> Casino game developer and mathematician

That sounds like a kind of incredible job description to me, what does it mean exactly to be a casino game developer?

[kyteland]

I'd describe it as being a mashup of voting machine development with game design. Gambling is a form of entertainment for most people who do it. When they go to a casino they vote with their dollars on which games they find entertaining. But we can't send our games directly to players, we sell to casinos. And every single one gets tested and approved by and independent regulatory board whose rules create a lot of boundaries/limits on how creative our designs can be.

And the mathematician part is exactly like being a "fun accountant" for the game. We set your fun budget and make sure the player (randomly, on average) never exceeds it.

[edub]

I did gaming math in Vegas for what I believe to be the biggest gaming math consultancy in Nevada (at least at the time). The games were divided between Table, Slot, and Video Poker. I did table games, because I find slot and video poker math to be boring.

Each assignment to me I was provided the rules of the game and the payout table. It was my job to determine the optimal way to play the game and calculate the house edge if you played with the optimal strategy. When I turned in my assignment I only provided the exact house edge. The owner of the business worked independently to determine the house edge as well, and if our numbers matched then he was confident that it was correct. If we had different numbers then we had to dig in to see who made a mistake.

I found table games fun to work on because of the variety of games people came up with, and it was mostly fun to determine the optimal strategy.

The owner of the company was very ethical. He attempted to convince clients to not spend money on introducing new table games. He would tell them that there was about a 1 in 1,000 chance that they would be able to convince a casino to let them do a 3-month trial run, and another 1 in 1,000 chance that the game would outperform blackjack in terms of dollars earned per square foot per month (not necessarily because it isn't a good game, but just because people love blackjack and are more wary of a game they aren't familiar with (it is intimidating to walk up to a game you don't know how to play, especially if you can't practice online first, and you don't want to feel dumb in front of strangers)).

Slots do fine in terms of making the casino money and plenty of room for variety. They have a high house edge. Video poker has a lower house edge, but a new variant of video poker is just adding the game to the menu of a video poker machine already in the casino. There is also less risk for someone that hasn't played a slot or video poker game because it is just them and the machine and no one to feel embarrassed watching you figure out how to play. So he didn't need to warn people that came to him with those types of games.

For new table games the gaming commission requires a trial period to verify that the drop (the profit the casino made) was statistically consistent with the calculated house edge.

I wouldn't have wanted to do it full time, I did about one game a month on a contract basis. I was going to work on a game a month no matter what to satisfy my curiosity and need to do math (finding a new game in a casino). I found a new game with a mistake that gave the player and edge, shared it with the guy that ran the company and he hired me when he confirmed I was correct.

The exception to his warning about table games was adding side bets to existing table games. That doesn't take up any additional square feet, and the house edge is much higher on all of the side bets, and very easy for the player to understand how to participate in the side bet.

As far as I can recall the only new table game introduced in the last few decades that succeeded was Three Card Poker, and the other poker-variants that spawned from it.

If you want to get into this, you are probably better off working for a company like IGT or Arsitocrat that makes their own games and is constantly trying to come up with new ideas and testing them.

[eru]

Sounds about as exciting as being an actuary. Or probably less so.

I'd rather be a mathematician making boardgames or cardgames, because they are allowed to have strategy. Casino games are by and large really dumb.

[andy800]

What value are you adding here by shitting on another poster's job? Just because it isn't something that interests you personally, is it necessary to announce that?

[eru]

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37664414 for a more considerate and nicer expression of a similar sentiment.

[fomine3]

For online casino, I'm not sure a random Caribbean island has good gambling laws or not.