[jfoutz]

Your friend is doing it wrong.

Instead of shelling out 17k/year, get a 5k deductible policy, and pay for the doctor visits yourself. put the 5-10k you save per year in some sort of investment you can get at when you really have to. Something like an index fund if you're young, or bonds if you're older.

[merrick]

Those 5k deductible policies still cost $500 a month for family in a small group and leave you really exposed to 15k per person (max out of pocket) and max 45k out of pocket for the family. That's not inline with what healthcare should cost. An individual may pay $75 for that same policy but still have exposure of around 15k per year max out of pocket.

The HSA plans are just as expensive as middle of the road plans as well and are geared towards people who save a lot to begin with.

[jfoutz]

here are some real numbers:

http://www.mrhealthinsurance.net/PDFs/Blue_Cross_Options_Blu...

a 64 year old with a drug problem and 3 kids is looking at 31k a year (worst case, 6k best case).

what, exactly, are you looking to have happen? it's either socialized, where healthy people subsidize the sick, or it's not, or there is some gradient between the two.

I think, right now, you're looking at about 6k/year per person. you can divide that up however you want... billg pays all of it, you pay your own way, or some point on the gradient between the two. regardless, the money has to come from somewhere. I kind of like the obamacare, everybody contributes something model. I think i'd prefer it as a straight up tax, but FREE MARKET IS AMAZING, RAWR, so whatever. that's fine.

edit

or we just let people die. i'm not ok with that.

edit 2

I need to qualify that, this is only for people that aren't poor or old (which medicare and mediaide cover already) or for veterans (which have their own system) or kids (chips it think it's called). this is exclusively for working class kinda folks who never went to war. the other 60% are already covered by socialized medicine.

edit 3

why the hell am i participating in an /r/politics discussion on hn? i'm obviously dumb.

edit 4

Thank you for simply downvoting and not replying. this way, i can go to sleep not worrying you're expecting a reply.