[tobr]

Who is it for, you asked. Do you think there might be a few beginner pianists who see value in being able to play other music than 300-year-old fugues? If an interest in developing musical abilities in a different direction constitutes a “ceiling” and “stunted development” for you, you have a very narrow view of what it means to play an instrument.

[rwhyan]

It's objectively a ceiling if you can't work towards playing the most technically challenging music.

It doesn't have to be Bach. You will struggle to learn ANY advanced piano without sheet music.

Sure it's for "beginners," but I'm saying it will inherently stunt their growth compared to putting in the work to learn sheet music.

[eitally]

That's not remotely true. if your objective is to play keys in a rock band, you really mostly just need chords and a little fill here and there.

I completely agree with your fundamental point, but it's a mistake to say someone needs to be able to be technically excellent in order not to feel like they've hit a ceiling in what they can do.

[tobr]

It’s not an objective ceiling when we disagree on which way is up! You have a super-weird and specific idea of what it means to play piano. I really can’t think of a less inspiring goal than playing “advanced” or “technically challenging” music. If you like to do that, go nuts, but don’t assume that anything else is meaningless.

[rwhyan]

How is that "super-weird" or "specific"? If anything, your idea of advanced pieces not being "up" is obscure.

> I really can’t think of a less inspiring goal than playing “advanced” or “technically challenging” music

Really? You can't understand how aiming to conquer a highly technical and musical piece is inspiring? It's the same as tackling any other difficult goal.

Music at a less technical level isn't meaningless, but it's an inherent limitation on your musicality if your repertoire is limited by technique.

Technique facilitates greater musicality. Sheet music facilitates greater technique.

Regardless, do as you please, but it's like saying, "I'll never learn code, because I can build no-code products!"

[tobr]

> You can't understand how aiming to conquer a highly technical and musical piece is inspiring?

You are putting words in my mouth - I am saying it’s not inspiring to me. I can understand that someone else might find it inspiring, sure! Like speedrunning a video game, some might find it an enjoyable challenge - but I think they can see that there are other reasons to play games. They wouldn’t say “who’s it for?” about a strategy guide because it’s not about speed.

For what it’s worth, I disagree with almost all of your descriptions of what musicality consists of. It’s not about repertoire or technique. If you see what types of music most people enjoy listening to and playing, you can see that you have a niche point of view. Technically challenging music is not more enjoyable to play or hear. Sheet music is irrelevant to most types of music, both historically and today - music is fundamentally heard and felt, not written and read, nor conquered.

I’ll leave this conversation now as it doesn’t appear to go anywhere meaningful.

[dbalatero]

Yes, and, it's a niche view even if you restrict things to America/western music. From a global perspective it's even more niche, limiting, and boxed in.