[danwee]

I didn't mean that there is a problem with such countries. I meant that prices are generally more or less the same (e.g., in the supermarkets, the price of an iphone, cinema tickets, etc.) but salaries are lower (at least in the IT industry, I see that one gets around 30% less in countries like France, Spain and Italy compared to what I could get in Germany, but definitely the cost of living in Germany is not 30% higher than in such countries).

[hn_throwaway_99]

This seems like such a common problem where I wonder if there is anything that can be done to break this cycle.

For an equivalent comparison, on this side of the pond tech salaries in Canada are abysmal compared to US salaries (at least from what I hear). And it's not like Canada is a ton cheaper (their real estate affordability crisis makes even places like California look a bit tame). But then I often here how policymakers in Canada wish there were "more tech" north of the border how they put in place programs to attract tech talent to the country. Of course, those programs are usually completely useless when engineers can double their salary coming to the US.

But a big part of the issue is that companies simply couldn't afford to double their salaries because they aren't as profitable as US tech giants (and not even FAANGs, but just other mid-tier tech companies as well). But it's going to be hard to build top tier tech companies if you can't attract top tier tech talent, so the cycle spirals.

I'm curious what tech salaries are like in bonafide EU tech standouts like Spotify.

[piva00]

> I'm curious what tech salaries are like in bonafide EU tech standouts like Spotify.

Usual mid-high end of Swedish tech salaries in Sweden. Not sure about the USA.

> But a big part of the issue is that companies simply couldn't afford to double their salaries because they aren't as profitable as US tech giants

I don't understand why there's always a comparison to US's salaries, the US is the outlier in every discussion about labour and salaries, almost nowhere else in the world (maybe except for Switzerland and similar countries) pays such high salaries, the rest of the world won't pay as much as the USA, it's a fact, I'd prefer to stop comparing everywhere else to that outlier, it won't be the rule.

It's the top benchmark and it has a huge cost in terms of quality of life for a chunk of the population, the USA is a business-first, citizenry-after kind of society, I don't feel it's a way of being that other countries should emulate. At least after living there for a while I never really felt that it was so rich, it has loads of rich people with shiny toys but society in general feels poor: infrastructure sucks (passing by any airport in the USA is a trip back to the 80s/90s), stuck with the car-centric mentality from the 50s, a very palpable huge divide between rich and poor, etc.

The USA has amazing businesses, and makes a lot of money, but I don't think it trickles down into society; given how rich the country is in nominal terms I'm always surprised whenever I pass by and realise that wealth is not translated into a better general quality of life for most citizens, it's just that people can afford to buy more trinkets...

[hn_throwaway_99]

> I don't understand why there's always a comparison to US's salaries, the US is the outlier in every discussion about labour and salaries

The reason I brought it up is because the most profitable, dynamic tech companies are founded and based in the US (often by immigrants). Other countries will lose their edge to be able compete in tech globally if they don't compete in engineer pay.

[nradov]

Why can't Canadian tech companies be just as profitable? The North American market is fairly unified; there are few obstacles to Canadian companies selling in the USA. What are they missing?

[VK538FY]

It's a bloody good question. From Nortel to BlackBerry, Canada has great potential that sort of goes pschitte in the end. Not to mention the continuing progress of the gaming or film sectors -- or even quantum computing. Universities are strong (at least in my home province) and I'd prefer them to anything that I've seen in the US, France or Germany. There may be a more economic than social explanation behind Canada's mediocre performance. Resource extraction is very profitable and maybe this extractive logic is transferred to other economic activities. Just throwing the idea out there.

[lm28469]

> I see that one gets around 30% less in countries like France,

What ends up in your bank account is about 20% higher in France than in Germany after going from brut to net though

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