| > A user's phone number is public information; you can't use that as the password in a PAKE. For sure, I just mean that people are already used to exchanging numbers, in person, to establish phone contact. So from a user experience point of view, exchanging a PAKE password for a shared secret isn't that much different from exchanging phone numbers. The resulting shared secret could be treated very much like a phone number, except it's like a secret phone number between you and that person. > Theoretically Signal could also offer a PAKE option to interactively authenticate a new contact remotely (if you do indeed have a shared password), but that's probably not easy to do in a way that's not prone to social engineering attacks, since you don't have a channel to communicate about what your password should be. (Remember that you don't trust the contact yet; an attacker could pick a password hint that they know the answer to as well!) This kind of thing makes the most sense to establish a secure connection with someone you already trust over an existing trusted channel. Much in the same way that you'd commonly get someone's phone number for the first time at a party, in person. (The physical environment of the party being the trusted channel.) Assuming these generative fake voice/video models get to the point (over the next five years) where people cannot easily differentiate between a real and fake conversation over an arbitrary/untrusted digital channel, I'd assume that the most trusted channels for these kinds of exchanges will be IRL in person or established secure channels. > A user's phone number is public information One of the big arguments in the backchannel proposal is that global public identifiers are vulnerable to spam, fraud, impersonation, etc... and that maybe we don't actually need them as much as we assume? Maybe we can instead share per-contact shared secrets as a form of identity? If you haven't watched it already, I highly recommend this talk about backchannel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ClLkuaoE-o |