Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by marcrosoft 1001 days ago
Except if you look at their financials they are paying a huge tax being a French company. Their resources would go further if they left.
8 comments

Not really. Taxes are so high because people get a lot of things for cheap/free like Healthcare and education. In countries where this isn't the case (USA for example) you'd easily pay 2 to 3 times the salary to get the same developer.

In this case even only paying the main dev a US wage would be more than the taxes on everything.

To be snarky:

How many US people who run non profits end up with a “major health event” and have to beg for donations for surgery or something?

While the EU people running non profits just… go to the doctor when they’re sick…

Maybe I'm too European, but ~5K out of ~44K total per month doesn't seem too bad. It's also based on what they earn, rather than a static sum, so seems totally OK for what you get back from it.
Lichess sysadmin (and trustee) here!

We're paying taxes on our employees, they're paid like regular French employees and therefore the employer is taxed accordingly. This is not income tax on our donations or swag sales.

I would prefer if the non-profit in France were "employer-taxed" less than for-profit companies, but no one seems to care.

which is what enables the French government to fund companies like lichess in the first place.

>Their resources would go further if they left.

So, what, say "thanks for the funding that got us started, we're off to fill our pockets somewhere else now"?

… Absolutely yes? Governments are amoral entities, and this particular relationship is based entirely on power (pay us or else), not mutual respect or any of the other things that characterize human social relationships.

If we must anthropomorphize them anyways, then they have paid back in taxes many times more than they were given to start. Any such "implicit" debt was long since paid, so they could move with a clear conscience.

You do get back a lot from the taxes you're paying, at least in many European countries, where healthcare is widely available to all. I don't feel bad paying what an American would consider "a lot of taxes" because I know it could (but doesn't always) go to helping my neighbor who maybe wouldn't be able to pay for a hospital visit if not. I also use all the built infrastructure every single day, and maintaining it costs money, obviously.

How much money were they given to start? I looked around for the numbers but I couldn't find it, but seems you were able to, could you share the full number you found?

Not to take this conversation too far off track, but the reverse argument could just as easily be made. Companies are amoral entities, existing only to deliver whatever value their owners wish to extract. Governments, meanwhile, are just the manifestation of the will of the people who live in a place. Even currency itself is just a creation of the people by way of the government; no business has any particular right to it.
Not only just as easily, but much more easily assuming somewhat functioning democracy.
I don't even dare ask what your opinion would be of concepts as nation or homeland.
> Their resources would go further if they left.

No, because they would have to pay on the open market for the things those taxes provide for. The tax they’re paying is insignificant compared to their costs.

You’ll note their developer costs are a fraction of what they would be in the US.

If they lived in the US, they probably would have needed to draw a double or triple salary? So not sure if they really are paying that much more for being in France in the end.
Because in ither countries you would not pay taxes at all…
No they are a non profit.
If you have employees you still need to pay employee taxes
go further and do what-hire one more dev?