[wtp1saac]

Being in the US, it’s a shame these countries are making this same mistake. I’m probably warped being in Gen Z, but cars/car-centric infrastructure seem like a fundamental mistake, and a shameful investment. Everyone should have a right to walkability, and frankly in my experience, cities without it feel substantially less pleasant. Having good inner-city transit and inner/inter-city rail makes places feel so much nicer and more developed.

Obviously, cities with good transit are substantially rarer and probably far worse maintained in the US than Europe, so I’m sure Europe is in an overall far better spot with it - but I struggle to understand the appeal of developing against walkability and transit-ability in 2023.

[ActorNightly]

>but cars/car-centric infrastructure seem like a fundamental mistake

The issue with public transport is the first word, public.

In a developing place, good public transport is a way better option, as it allows people without higher salaries to be able to spend money on other things than transportation, which in turn grows the economy.

However, once a place is developed economically, and people can afford cars, the general desire is to have a form of transport that does not depend on other people. Public transport can be late, you have to deal with inconsiderate people, there are additional weather issues you have to deal with, e.t.c.

Same goes for living in apartments/condos versus having your own piece of land. Apartments of course are the way to go for densely populated areas, but with everything else equal, people generally would prefer to live away from others for very good reasons.

The key to solving transportation is 2 fold.

First, there should be massive investments into autonomous driving from a policy level. I.e standardized systems, hardware, additional infrastructure. We did this for airplanes, no reason it can't be done for cars. Self driving shouldn't be a matter of having to train a neural net to drive from vision alone, having a car follow a path that it can reliably detect from external markers.

The second is way looser regulation on electric bicycles/mopeds and investment into that sector in general. There is HUGE value mismatch on those things. A gas powered scooter is often as expensive as an electric bike ($2-4k for a decent build), and can reach speeds that make it ok on roads, whereas the bike is speed limited for assist, and has way fewer moving parts. $2k more buys you a 300cc motorcycle that is highway worthy. If there are more affordable options for ebikes as well as options with higher power and no speed restrictions, you will have a much wider adoption of them, beyond even the current high market for them. You can pair this with regulation on disallowing car traffic on sectors within cities during certain times.

[panick21_]

> Public transport can be late, you have to deal with inconsiderate people, there are additional weather issues you have to deal with, e.t.c.

People use public transport when it is convenient. If you are a rich country that has so many of these rich people then you can make your public transport good.

If cars and roads actually had to compete in terms of cost benefits, driving would be far more expensive.

> Same goes for living in apartments/condos versus having your own piece of land. Apartments of course are the way to go for densely populated areas, but with everything else equal, people generally would prefer to live away from others for very good reasons.

Having single family homes isn't an issue. Having only single family homes and no commercial is the issue. Row houses can be very popular and cost efficient for people who don't want to be in an apartment.

If you look at subburbs in the Netherlands for example, you will see a wild mix of different types of buildings, all still conected to public tranist and of course great bike infrastructure.

As long as people pay tax for using more land (land value tax ftw) and the car is put into an appropriate place in the transport hierarchy.

> First, there should be massive investments into autonomous driving

Absolutely terrible choice. Even the best case outcome isn't great.

If there is a place where self driving makes sense its in last mile transporting people in the subburbs.

> The second is way looser regulation on electric bicycles/mopeds and investment into that sector in general.

This isn't unreasonable.

> The key to solving transportation is 2 fold.

No the key is actually to have great bike and public infrastructure, and if you do most people will use it. If you also properly restrict cars specifically in cities and make drivers actually pay for all the issues with cars. Then biking and pubic transport will be incredibly popular.

And the cars that are left over are far less of a problem.

[zolbrek]

I struggle to understand the appeal of walking in the rain and snow and cuddling with strangers on public transport in any year, and that's without bags of groceries. You can walk if you want, everyone should have the right to drivability.

[M1ch431]

Everybody should have access to all modes of transportation that are sustainable and comfortable to them and the people around them. Transportation should be accessible. Period.

Be it high speed rail, car, bus, e-bike, e-scooter, etc. As long as what you are doing is safe, and you're not harming yourself or other people, you should be able to use whatever the hell kind of gadget you want to in order to get to the places you need to go. You shouldn't have police coming up to you telling you what you can and cannot put on the road because the laws are ancient and stagnant - and only get changed if there is a profit incentive.

You shouldn't have to worry about getting run off the road/sidewalk/crosswalk because the people who planned/make the roads think it's a good thing to build thin, one-lane on each side, roads, with no bike lane, with no shoulder or a very small shoulder, with poorly-maintained sidewalks, etc.

We really need to rethink how roads should work, how traffic lights should work, suggest speeds instead of set limits, and update our infrastructure. And standardize, standardize, standardize.

And specifically, here in the US, we need to change to the metric system, like the rest of the world. But that probably will never happen.

[earthling8118]

This precious drivability is what it making it suck everywhere. Including for the drivers. It would be better for all parties involved if it wasn't made to be the only viable method of transportation.

[zolbrek]

I live close to a small city in the Northeast of Germany and driving here is a dream. Nothing like LA. (Which is the city a deleted reply mentioned as an example of cars destroying nice cities. LA's problem is more one of overpopulation, if the population levels were as they were a few decades ago it would be wonderful to live and drive in LA.)

I would like to also mention the blatant disregard of traffic laws by the many cyclists here as an unnecessary burden on motorists. You should be required to take theoretical and practical driving exams no matter the vehicle if you intend to put wheels on the road, otherwise you are a danger to all parties. Helmets on the road should also be required just as it is for bikers.

[powercf]

> blatant disregard of traffic laws by the many cyclists

Enforcement of traffic law for cyclists would be good, but blatant disregard of traffic laws (e.g. running yellow/red lights, not yielding at crossings, stopping on bike paths before roundabouts etc.) by many motorists also exists, and typically is much more dangerous for others than the actions of cyclists (who typically only endanger themselves)

> Helmets on the road should also be required just as it is for bikers

Why? Cyclists don't usually fall off or hit their heads. The costs of mandatory helmets outweigh the benefits.

[zolbrek]

Drivers are definitely more disciplined here because habitual blatant disregard of traffic laws will lead to you quickly losing your license.

Motorists don't usually get into accidents either, it's when exceptions happen that you can be glad to have been wearing a mandated seatbelt.

The cost of a decent helmet is 30-50€. What's the cost of bashing your head against the curb and leaking fluid out of your broken skull?