[grumbel]

The issue for me is more that the FSF hasn't kept up with what is happening in technology. Software these days is often a secondary concern, as you aren't the one owning the computer, instead it is all running remotely and it's really about the data and control of said data. The licenses the FSF offers, including the AGPL, are inadequate to address this.

Over in Europe we got the GDPR, which does actually address a lot of data related issues quite well. But as far as Free Software licenses go, there still isn't any equivalent or even much discussion on how to attack the problem in the first place.

FSF feels stuck in solving 1980s problems, while having little to say about 2020s problems. "Don't do it", "self-host" or "run locally" doesn't cut it when a lot of software fundamentally has to be distributed in some fashion.

[thesuperbigfrog]

>> Software these days is often a secondary concern, as you aren't the one owning the computer, instead it is all running remotely and it's really about the data and control of said data. The licenses the FSF offers, including the AGPL, are inadequate to address this.

The irony is that most cloud computing infrastructure is powered by free and open source software.

Linux, bash, docker, Kubernetes, Golang, and so many others make it happen. Even Microsoft has come around to open source with GitHub and many projects released there: https://github.com/microsoft

>> FSF feels stuck in solving 1980s problems, while having little to say about 2020s problems.

What 2020s problems are not being addressed?

Edit: Looking at your comment in another reply concerning users controlling their own data, this essay addresses the topic:

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-s...

I think it comes back to trust, transparency, and the laws where you live.

Users should have choice of how their data is handled and what can be done with it. In order for that to work, they must 1) have a way to legally challenge entities who would use their data without their permission and 2) alternative ways to accomplish the work that they want to do with their data.

Laws where users live must address 1). Free software can help with 2).

[zelphirkalt]

Which concern specifically does AGPL not address?

[grumbel]

AGPL is only concerned with source code, it doesn't address how to handle a user's data in any way. Giving you the source, while keeping your data under locks is perfectly fine under AGPL.

Meanwhile the GDPR has the concept of "Data Portability" and requires every service to allow users to export their data, so that they can move it somewhere else. As far as I know, there is no Free Software license with similar requirements. They all stop at the source code, which just isn't enough in a modern SAAS based world.

[freedrull]

> you aren't the one owning the computer

Sounds to me like they are more relevant than ever. :)

[jbaber]

This is a very good way of putting this.