[bbbobbb]

That's not what the post is about. They describe the process as mostly fixing issues with existing software, so the motivation is that something is broken or not working as required anymore.

Refactoring it is just one of possible parts of the process, much opposed to 'yeah this legacy code is broken dogshit and needs to be rewritten even though the current software is already written, proven and works for 99% of the stuff we need' approach.

[JohnBooty]

    [Refactoring] is not what the post is about. 

Not directly, but kinda, at least in my experience.

Clients and management generally understand that old code needs to be maintained. They don't love that reality, but that's not generally a tough sell unless they're completely clueless. And they're usually not completely clueless.

The tension in my experience comes when an engineer wants to perform something other than the fastest, sloppiest, filthiest duct-tape maintenance imaginable.

Management accepts the need for fixes, but often does not have the technical/domain knowledge to understand the short- and long-term merits of Proposed Fix A versus Proposed Fix B. And naturally, incentives heavily push management toward the quick fixes by default. Time is money, after all. And managers are expected to meet quarterly and annual OKRs. We don't have a good way to quantify the long-term value of a "proper" fix versus a "duct tape" fix. And so on.

So for me maintenance work is difficult to separate from notions of longer-term software maintenance such as refactors, dependency upgrades, etc.

[robocat]

> Refactoring

I personally don't believe refactoring should ever be part of "maintenance".

Maintenance needs to avoid YAGNI and avoid the engineers natural desire for over-engineering and unnecessary perfect polishing and abstruse abstraction.

Refactoring is something that should be driven by new features (or worst case towards rewrite), and few have the skill to do it well.

I'm not arguing the sibling strawman that maintenance be "the fastest, sloppiest, filthiest duct-tape maintenance imaginable."

Excelling at maintenance is highly skillful work and often poorly rewarded.

[JohnBooty]

Well, I certainly agree that engineers tend towards YAGNI and this must be avoided.

     Refactoring is something that should be driven by 
     new features (or worst case towards rewrite),

This overlooks a whole other class of factors that can drive maintenance: changes in the environment.

Assuming we're talking about a program that does something useful and isn't just a screensaver, it's probably ingesting data from the outside world. That data can change in a variety of ways. API partners and users can introduce changes on their end and will eventually find new and annoying edge cases. Or maybe the volume of data increases by 100x and changes must be made on your end.

Or maybe your software sort of rots as the security vulnerabilities pile up. Eventually you've got to make major version or point upgrades to the framework and/or various dependencies.

We want to handle these demands judiciously and as a rule, yeah, refactoring isn't generally going to be the answer but sometimes it is.

[dragonwriter]

> I personally don't believe refactoring should ever be part of "maintenance".

Of course it shouldn’t, because software maintenance does not exist. Programs don’t degrade with use. All “maintenance” on software is, like new development, the implementation of new context->behavior combinations, and calling it something different is a result of applying an inappropriate physical-product metaphor.

[JohnBooty]

    Of course it shouldn’t, because software maintenance 
    does not exist. Programs don’t degrade with use

This is some real pedantic gymnastics and you're not even correct.

The word "maintenance" doesn't imply some kind of physical product metaphor. Sorry. That's not what the word means.

[SideburnsOfDoom]

> software maintenance does not exist

There are several activities in software that are similar to maintenance of physical products. e.g.

* that parsing library that you used 2 years ago and was in good working order then, is now outdated and has known vulnerabilities that are not present in the latest version, apply update.

* Those cloud-hosted databases that you use are an older version that the cloud vendor has deprecated and will some time withdraw support for, apply migration to a later one.