[0daystock]

Almost all happened in Latin America where individual rights, including to own and defend yourself with potent firearms, is severely limited (except for agents of the state). Without this fundamental ability and political right, lawful good individuals will suffer and fail. History is replete with examples of this basic and obvious fact. Armed minorities are more difficult to oppress.

[itsanaccount]

I'm delighted by this split brained reality in America.

"facts" as stated by a particular left group. - Cops are oppressive, unreformable and should be abolished - The GOP has become fascist and are looking to overthrow the government - The rich will choose to murder us all slowly via climate change and retreat as they did during the pandemic to let the masses suffer

AND

- We should outlaw everyman gun ownership because of the harm it causes.

It occurs to me that its probably a projection of our first-past-the-post political system that means these views all get amalgamated together, because they sure don't make logical sense.

[amanaplanacanal]

They make sense if you assume one thing: gun owners are never going to rise up and throw out the bad guys in government. If that is never going to happen, all those guns are really only used to kill a bunch of innocent people, rather than the bad guys in government.

If you think gun owners are really somehow going to save us from fascists at the top, when is that gonna start, exactly? What would actually get them to start fighting? I frankly don’t see it ever happening.

I know our national myth of the American revolution is that freedom loving patriots are going to rise up and throw off the oppressors, but that is a pipe dream. The answers are in the ballot box, not the cartridge box.

[itsanaccount]

Did you read the parent post I was replying to?

All those guns are going to kill a bunch of people because the other side, you I'm guessing in this case, have decided to willfully disarm yourself because you believe the ballot box is the sole savior. I expect because such people are afraid of accepting a world in which they must be responsible for their own safety.

Along that same path, I'm not worried about a fascist in Washington DC, I'm worried about the one next door. The ones who see some queer kids stocking up at a rural store, and follow them to their campsite to tell em they aren't welcome with threats, and destroy their sense of safety. (Speaking from experience) Ballot box doesn't fix that, but couple weekends of pistol training and drills can help.

[mikrotikker]

Do you suppose that Jews in 1930s Germany would have suffered such horrific treatment had they been armed?

[throwlejos]

As someone who migrated from a very conflictive area of Latin America, this is the answer, period. But the minute you mention this to the incumbents here in the US (specially to those claiming the need to “amplify” underrepresented voices) all of a sudden you will not be an ally anymore.

[0daystock]

That is not by accident. The history of gun control in the USA (and mostly elsewhere) is deeply rooted in racism and classism. The very idea of an armed minority challenging the status quo terrifies individuals living lives of relative privilege and prosperity. Even if they don't consciously apprehend their bias (and most lack the emotional and spiritual maturity to do so), they are useful in promoting the false narrative of "only the State must monopolize power" as they are the benefactors of it.

[anigbrowl]

Indeed. American liberalism (in the most general rather than partisan sense) has for decades tied itself to the ideal of nonviolence. In practice means that it favors orderly incumbency (however oppressive) over messy revolution (however justified). It's not armed groups are good by definition; many of them are highly questionable or outright appalling, eg FARC or the Maoist Shining Path group. But this 'nonviolence' posture and its magical exclusion of most state violence ensures that unarmed movements are impotent. An impressive dichotomy for a country that celebrates its own violent formation with fireworks and song every July.

[fluoridation]

Several countries in Latin America are near the top in murder rate, guns or no guns. That activists are killed more often in places where people in general are killed more often doesn't by itself tell you much about whether guns should be legal or not.

[outside1234]

I think you should now apply that reasoning to Mexico. Pretty sure the guns there aren’t making it safer.

[0daystock]

There is one gun store in all of Mexico and a two-tier ownership/permitting system where only the oligarchy class actually has rights to arms. No wonder it isn't safe when the average person is deprived of the means to defend themselves.