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by javcasas 1014 days ago
> Java (and preferably Kotlin) are a lot more serious about making sure your code is robust before it compiles.

You are making great points for Rust, Ocaml and Haskell.
1 comments
kaba0 1014 days ago
There isn't all that many plus in their type systems that is not expressible in Java. OCaml and Haskell has Monads, sure. There is Scala for that on the JVM.
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javcasas 1014 days ago
> There isn't all that many plus in their type systems that is not expressible in Java.

Thanks to Turing, anything that is Turing-complete can duplicate any other thing that is Turing-complete. So, yes, you can do all of Haskell's types in Java. That is not a flex.

The flex is doing them in a non-horrific way.

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kaba0 1014 days ago
The kind of Turing completeness certain type systems have is useless beside academic curiosity - look at the vavr library, that’s what I’m talking about. You can have plenty Haskell types without any hacks, except for Monads in Java.
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javcasas 1014 days ago
> vavr - turns java™ upside down

"turn X upside down" are different words for "use X contrary to its original intention and design".

You will find very few people willing to let go what people undestand as Java so as to be able to do Haskell-in-Java.

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kaba0 1014 days ago
It’s goddamn immutable collections and Optionals, not brain surgery come on.

It’s not like Java hasn’t been going in the same direction, see records, sum types, pattern matching.

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javcasas 1014 days ago
Yes, it's goddamn immutable collections and Optionals.

People still hate it because it's immutable, therefore you can't do hashmap.add(), and it's hard because they can't randomly return nulls, and it's slow because the hashmap now takes o(log n) always instead of o(1) sometimes and o(n) other times.

People hate it because it's different to the Java they learnt 20 years ago, that they claim is exactly the same as today.

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Xeamek 1014 days ago
Is it possible to express Rust enums (tagged unions) and especially the option type in Java? Ofcourse. But the power of good type system doesn't come from the fact if you can express something, but rather how seamlessly it is integrated in to the language.
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kaba0 1014 days ago
Rust has sum types named wrongly as enums, which java also has as sealed interfaces. The option type is just one example for a sum type, which is as easy to express in Java as

  sealed interface Option<T> permits Some<T>, None<T> {
    record Some<T>(T value) {}
    record None<T>() {}
  }
Sure, you have written 3 words more than Rust, and?
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