[RecycledEle]

Disclaimer: War is hell. I have had friends from both Russia and from Ukraine. I could cry for everyone involved in this war.

Now for what I think needs to be said: Very few people go to war thinking they are the bad guys. Most believe they are defending what is right.

Ukraine claims Russia invaded.

Russia claims Ukraine is an aggressive NATO outpost and that they have been invaded too many times not to see it coming.

NATO wants to avoid a powerful Russia that can invade Europe.

And so it goes in Ukraine.

In the South China Sea, it's the same story.

Taiwan wants to be left alone.

China wants to control the waters near its shore like the other great powers do.

The USA wants to help Taiwan, mostly to safeguard access to the world's best computers.

China sees US patrols near their coast as a continuations of 100 Years of Humiliation and of the Opium Wars.

The US does not care about what a private company from the UK did before any of our sailors or airmen were born.

It's the same story in the Middle East, and everywhere else that wars are fought.

We humans are a sorry lot.

[drt5b7j]

> Russia claims Ukraine is an aggressive NATO outpost and that they have been invaded too many times not to see it coming.

They've been invading their neighbors for 200 years, at some point their neighbors got together and promised collective mutual defense. They can claim NATO is the bad guys, but they don't have much credibility at this stage. Stalin was claiming "capitalist encirclement" already in the late 1920s, way before NATO existed.

You know just because one side says one thing and the other says another thing, this isn't something unknowable, right? Russia complains about NATO - how many times has NATO invaded Russia? Now how many times has Russia invaded its neighbors? In just the last 10 years Russia has occupied Georgia, bombed Moldova, and invaded Ukraine. If they don't like all their neighbors joining an alliance maybe they shouldn't keep invading. Use some critical thinking dude.

[RecycledEle]

I respectfully disagree with your viewpoint.

Many Russians disagree with your viewpoint.

This reminds me of the devil's definition of a moderate: A moderate is a person who holds the reasonable moderate position, which is the only reasonable position. Therefore, anyone who disagrees with a moderate is a screaming, bomb-throwing radical ideologue, who must be silenced no matter what it takes. This is the only reasonable moderate position.

[drt5b7j]

Many Russians disagree and many Russians are wrong. Many Russians have been so abused by their successive shitty governments that they've been Stockholm syndromed into loving the abuse.

I don't care you "disagree with my viewpoint". It's not an opinion. It's a fact that Russia has been an invader for the past 200 years. It's a fact that Russias neighbors are scared. It's a fact that even Armenia, who never says no to Russia because it's afraid Russia will just roll in the tanks, has figured wait a minute we don't have to bend over any more.

You know the most interesting thing about Russia's sphere on influence? It's doesn't have one. Which countries are friendly with Russia? Syria and north korea. These are failed states and they're not neighbors of Russia lol. Why do you think this is? Because being a bully works while you're strong, but as soon as you waver you'll learn your victims don't actually like you.

[The_Colonel]

Another devil's definition of a moderate is a person who thinks that Nazi's wish to exterminate Jews has to be treated fairly and can't be simply dismissed out of hand.

[drt5b7j]

One side wants to kill all the Jews, the other side just wants to be left alone. Who's right no one knows, call it 50-50.

There's more than a superficial resemblance between the two situations btw. Look up Holodomor, when Stalin decided he'll try and kill as many ukranians as possible. 7 million dead in 2 winters. Hear him out tho, he just has a different viewpoint.

[RecycledEle]

Evil is real. It is a good thing to fight evil.

It helps in the fight against evil if you understand that evil lies to people, and convinces people that they are the victims.