[socks]

to be honest, imo a test drive isn't enough. I test drove a Model 3 (was given 30 minutes), thought it was interesting, and might have considered buying one. A few weeks later I rented a Model Y for 12 days to go on a road trip with my family, and ended up absolutely hating it. And it wasn't because of the charging - that was quite pleasant - it was the constant beeping at me for the way I usually drive. Plus, overall, it just felt cheap, not sure how to describe it. The steering wheel feels too small, can't stand the buttons on the wheel, wish there was a small vibrate motor to tell me I'm going overspeed instead of noise (or nothing). No speed limiter which I find maddening (adaptive cruise control not suitable for city driving!). Basically, now I would never buy one, and the original test drive illuminated nothing

[Kaibeezy]

> the constant beeping

... is why I hate renting cars these days. So many pings and you don’t even know why. You try to shut them off through layers of menus and then they go back to defaults the next time you start the car.

Worst is the LDW dinging at you and jerking the wheel. Hyundai and Kia are egregious. F-off!

And the map, reverting to zoomed-in-3D-direction-you’re-headed view after 30 seconds. Excuse me, Chrysler, but some of us understand maps better when they are flat, north is up, and there’s context.

A memorable BMW shouting at me every time I exceeded the speed limit, in Dutch.

The engine eco-shutting-off just when you’re about to dash across an intersection and a truck is coming. NDE.

It used to be fun to try new things, now it’s just a headache.

[the_third_wave]

> A memorable BMW shouting at me every time I exceeded the speed limit, in Dutch.

That BMW could have saved you a fine if you had been driving on one of the roads with 'trajectcontrole' [1], a type of entry-to-exit average speed check which is used on a number of roads in the Netherlands as well as in Belgium. This system is based around cameras with number plate readers which are placed on all entries and exits to the roads as well as on the roads themselves which record when you enter and exit a stretch of road, calculate your average speed and send you a fine if that average speed is more than 3 km/h (for speed limits up to 100 km/h) or 3% (above 100 km/h) over the posted speed limit. That posted speed limit varies depending on the day of week and time of day. The limit can also be reduced temporarily which is indicated on matrix signs on portals above the road so I assume those limits are taken into account as well. Suffice to say this system is hard to circumvent and it is very easy to end up getting fined.

[1] https://boetes.nl/trajectcontroles/

[Kaibeezy]

Alas, Ik spreek geen, so I got three tickets from the same speed trap outside Amersfoort: rise (not quite a hill, right?), curve, overhanging trees, boom. Damn thing shouted at me all through Belgium and France. No way to shut it off or change languages.

This’ll do for next time - https://www.joeyrent.com/lancia-fulvia-1300-s-rallye

[hindsightbias]

Thought nothing would be crazier than a Y until I got an X5 BMW for a rental. It was even more insane. It has a frantic beep when you open the door to get in or out. It honks because it thinks you’ve left the fob in it. Thanks for waking my neighbors up at 2am.

[b7we5b7a]

Replying by point, as I've been driving my 2019 M3 for 4y now:

- agree, rent it for a few days after the test drive, EVs have a different style of driving that might not suit you

- pings in modern cars are everywhere, it's not just Teslas - the way I drive, I very rarely (<2 times/month) get a ping from Forward Collision Warnings, but just because I keep it to "Early", which is the longest triggering distance; otherwise the car is silent (you may be constantly driving too close to other cars?), my father's ID.4 is just as annoying, if not worse

- people call Tesla interior "cheap", when in reality it's just simple and plain but durable, most of the costs of the car are in the battery and powertrain

- Am 1.85m tall at 110kg, steering wheel feels appropriate in size

- On my M3 2019, there's two buttons that have 2 axes (up/down/left/right) and a push

- Overspeed indication can be configured: none/speed limit icon animation/super-annoying bell that scares you every time (I keep it to icon animation)

And, replying to final point, the speed limiter IS the adaptive cruise control, which is perfectly working in cities, esp. in traffic jams. The way it works is to pick the speed limit as ceiling, and adapt the cruise to the traffic and the follow the vehicle in front at the distance that you've set (right wheel button left/right). The distance is adaptive (dist. 7 @ 50 km/h << dist. 7 @ 130 km/h). I usually keep 7 because it reduces the amount of slowdowns when people cut in front, resulting in a smoother ride. I've often seen the complaint that follow distance 7 in US cities is impossible, because everyone would jump in front of you - I'd still not recommend setting 2, it makes for a super-annoying stop-and-go drive.

I have the "bad luck" of living in Switzerland, where speed limits change every 50m: my routine is to use TACC as much as possible, and disengaging it with ample margin (using only regen to break) when coming up to traffic lights/roundabouts/crossings. I don't have to think about speed limits anymore, because TACC does it for me. Only exception is highway drives, where I need to change the speed limit beforehand with the right steering wheel button (or tap on the limit icon).

Hint: you can disengage TACC and/or AP without breaking, just do a quick soft tap-up on the right stalk (like soft-blinker tap).

There are a couple important points about the driving style of an EV, that I feel are not stressed enough:

- you try to regen as much as possible and avoid using breaks to get some energy back (extend the driving range), and you wear down break pads way less than ICE cars

- you don't floor it after every stop, because torque is instant and the engine needs no revving up - if you do this, I guarantee you'll always be running up to the bumper of the vehicle in front of you and having the car scream at you (regardless of the brand)

From my point of view, after 4y, looking also at all the other EVs that followed after Teslas (father has ID.4, mother Peugeot e-208), Tesla has managed to automate mostly-well many aspects of driving while reducing UI complexity (and removing "I have used it once in the lifetime of the car" buttons).

- AC does a good job of keeping the temperature in relation to the outside temp, also selecting the appropriate air flow outlets

- Automated lights off/on/high-beams well enough, that honestly I can't remember the last time I touched the setting, possibly never

- Voice control works decently enough that I can select songs or playlists just by pressing the wheel button (in addition to controlling pretty much all the car features)

- Auto-wipers works well enough for me in >90% conditions, except perhaps hurricane-level thunderstorms in a pitch-black area

- TACC/AP do an excellent job at keeping distance and lane on highways, and they're years better in terms of quality compared to competitors (I wanted for a long time Enhanced AP with lane changes, but after having tested it, I'd rather not; never used FSD, also: Europe)

Considerations about the UI: people keep claiming that they want 200 physical buttons, and that it's dangerous to take your eyes off the road, but:

- the Tesla UI is done well enough that I can adjust my AC faster than my ICE-powered friend can (not that I need it that much, it does a good job)

- my friend still also needs to either look at the AC temp/flow selectors or press a -/+/... button until a display shows what he wants, so it's not like the ICE version is safer than the Tesla in this regard

- I feel the "muscle memory" everybody talks about works for 1/2 HUGE tactible features at most if you only have 1 car available to drive, the rest of stuff you'll still need to look what you're doing regardless (unless you regularly spend >15s counting X buttons from the left of the second row of buttons from the bottom)

- TACC and AP (and safety features worst case) fill in the attention void created by these actions, while the ICEs have none of these available unless they are in the same price range

- VW ID.4 and Peugeot e-208 have archaic OSes that have huge input latency and were designed with automotive in mind BUT NOT REALLY TESTED FOR IT (in general UI interactions are NOT well thought out), while Tesla has a simple settings panel with everything in it, automates most regulations, and it's super-responsive

- VW ID.4 has so many buttons to activate the TACC/AP equivalents, in different modes, that my father after >2y of daily driving still hasn't mastered them, and the steering wheel looks like an Formula 1 steering wheel; compare that to: "single-tap" -> TACC engaged + "double-tap" -> AP engaged

In general, driving for me has become fun again: I don't need to worry about a ton of stuff, and operating the car is WAY easier than manual or even auto transmission.

[socks]

Thanks for your detailed reply. I am yet to try other EVs other than a Nissan Leaf and an eNV200, but I think both of these fit my driving style a bit more than the MY (I used B mode in other EVs and love regen braking).

Giving credit where it is due, I do agree that the Tesla cruise control is great. I was driving it in Germany and Austria and it maintaining correct speed going down mountains and hills was just chefs-kiss perfect.

But - I think it is not correct to say that you don't need a speed limiter because of TACC or that it can replace a speed limiter. And I believe I got into a good rhythm with the Tesla (with TACC on, hold stick down when approaching a speed change sign, release when I pass it, no beeps of disable/re-enable- although this still causes overspeed alert even if car is slowing to match new speed).

I had the overspeed alert set very strict - which is why it was beeping at me - but without a speed limiter this is the only way to force myself to not go overspeed everytime I accelerate while looking at traffic rather than the speedometer.

Driving in 20kmh areas, TACC didn't switch on for me, and I hated having to re-engage TACC every time I slowed to enter a roundabout. I literally just want to concentrate on driving in these complex suburban situations, but I don't want to have my photo taken by radar, I just want the car to limit my speed, or have the speed available if I really need it suddenly (at the extreme end of the throttle range)

Have you used speed limiters in other vehicles? I know I have driven a Peugeot 2008 which could read speed signs then you could double press a button to set your limiter to that speed.

I want that, but without needing to press a button. I actually want to remap throttle response over the range of the throttle, and have a particular range of the throttle which is "sticky" at the speed limit... like a "gravity well" of throttle range that will maintain the speed limit. Does that make sense?

[b7we5b7a]

You're welcome, no problem :)

I honestly couldn't tell too much difference between my M3 1-pedal driving (stop mode: Stop) and my father's ID.4 (not sure if it was in B mode). I used to go with Creep mode (Stop mode was introduced sometime in 2020 IIRC), then I tried Stop and fell in love with it, it provides max regen and auto-engages breaks when close to standstill.

As for the overspeed, on highways, I usually ensure there's enough space in the passing lane, I change lane and let it accelerate without pushing it myself (or give it a small nudge without disengaging). I literally just discovered that AP also has "Overtake acceleration", which I never knew existed or used ( https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/2017_2023_model3/en_eu/GU... ). On city streets, I let TACC run at 50km/h or 30km/h, so I usually go for the accelerator only to navigate in/out of turns.

You can switch on TACC at <30km/h if you have visible traffic ahead of you more than 1.5m apart, so unless you're driving at night with nobody around you should be able to enable it also at 20km/h.

TBH though after 4y I also developed a feeling for city-speeds, so I rarely overspeed, even accidentally. The small price to pay is that I really have to use feather-weight on the accelerator and it's not always easy (esp. if you're physically tired).

As I read your post I realized what you really want: power cut-off at set speed ("do not push over X") with override option. Throttle remapping sounds cool, but I'm not sure anybody implements it like that. AFAIK Tesla does not have that on any model, agreed.

[nunez]

If the car was "constantly beeping", you were either not wearing your seat belt (unlikely), speeding with speed limit warnings turned on (though there are plenty of mapped areas that have outdated speed limits and no updated signs on the road to replace them), or approaching stopped cars way too quickly, triggering forward collision warnings.

[6D794163636F756]

I'd say it's pretty crappy ui if a new user can't immediately identify what's causing the beeping. If I'm in car going highway speeds and it starts yelling at me not knowing what to do will result in a more dangerous situation.