[biogene]

I think its OK if they can't fix it. The problem comes when companies like Apple (don't know about Google) block right-to-repair legislation, or block access to parts for third-party repair or generally spread FUD about third-party repair.

[turquoisevar]

So you’re ok with the company that sells it to you not being able to fix it and dropping support, but the company that provides repair services up to 7 years and battery replacements for Macs up to 10 years is somehow worse than that because they refuse to provide access to parts to third party repair shops that don’t join their program?

Again let me recap here:

- company that drops support, with no access to parts at all - company that provides support for almost a decade and limited access to parts

And somehow you see that and say that the first one is better?

Nuts.

[biogene]

> but the company that provides repair services up to 7 years and battery replacements for Macs up to 10 years is somehow worse than that because they refuse to provide access to parts to third party repair shops that don’t join their program?

Apple is well known for forcing customers to swap expensive internal components (instead of repairing them) and contributing to greater e-waste. They force suppliers to not sell parts to independent repair stores. It sounds like you're not very familiar with it, so I won't blame ya.

I have the option of not taking my car to the dealership and instead doing simple stuff like oil changes myself, or taking it to a mechanic I trust. I'd like the same option for my electronics. If you don't trust anyone except Apple, you can keep going to them.

[turquoisevar]

> Apple is well known for forcing customers to swap expensive internal components (instead of repairing them) and contributing to greater e-waste.

I’ll do you one better, they often swap out the entire device.

The customer doesn’t have to wait for a repair and can walk out with a working device, the defective device meanwhile is send off to one of their repair centers for further assessment.

I don’t know if this contributes to more e-waste because I don’t know the percentage of devices repaired, stripped for parts to be reused and stripped for parts to be recycled.

What I do know is that they heavily invest recovery of parts and other environmental focused processes and that they make extensive information on it available[0] just so they can brag about for 20 seconds during their keynotes. It seems unlikely to me that, despite this, they secretly bury a bunch of e-waste in their backyard (so to say).

> They force suppliers to not sell parts to independent repair stores. It sounds like you're not very familiar with it, so I won't blame ya.

They have no issues providing parts to independent repair stores, provided they’re part of the Independent Repair Provider Program[1]. The main requirement of which is that the technicians get certified, certification fees are waived and there’s no fee to join the program.

I can hardly blame them for wanting to make sure the parts end up in skillful hands if the repair is going to be advertised as done with genuine Apple parts, because the customer will sooner blame Apple than know to blame a shoddy technician.

> I have the option of not taking my car to the dealership and instead doing simple stuff like oil changes myself

Have at it, go change that oil[2].

> or taking it to a mechanic I trust. I'd like the same option for my electronics.

And you have. Like with cars you can go to a mechanic you trust that can’t get their hands on OEM parts and will use imitation parts or you can go to a mechanic you trust that does have access to OEM parts.

With cars it’s actually a bit more complicated because it depends on the car make, model, the part in question, the region you’re in and some other factors.

But without devolving into a new tangent, you have those same options.

0: https://www.apple.com/environment/

1: https://support.apple.com/irp-program

2: https://support.apple.com/self-service-repair

[biogene]

I'm talking about component level repair, not recycle. Apple doesn't offer that service, and has never offered that service. They tell the customer to replace entire motherboards (costly + wasteful) which is so costly that its often cheaper to just buy a new device. Repairing a product by replacing a part that costs 50 cents is a lot better than extracting rare earth elements from the planet all over again. This isn't about forcing Apple to repair stuff, I just want them to get out of the way. Also, I don't mean to single out Apple, they're just a popular target, many companies have the same anti-repair policies.

[dns_snek]

That's a very disingenuous recap, the commenter was complaining about Apple opposing and derailing right to repair legislation. Apple doesn't just refuse to provide parts either, they're increasingly serializing parts such that perfectly working components from 2 brand new Apple devices can't be swapped between them.

Not that Google is any better, they're all inexcusably terrible, anti-consumer, e-waste generating operations.

[turquoisevar]

The commenter said “Shit action is Ok, but boy that other company is worse” and that just doesn’t compute for me.

> Apple opposing and derailing right to repair legislation

I guess you didn’t hear the latest news[0]?

> they're increasingly serializing parts

A pedantic minor correction: they haven’t so much increased it as people have started noticing stuff that had been serialized prior

> such that perfectly working components from 2 brand new Apple devices can't be swapped between them

They can be swapped, the device doesn’t block it outright or refuses to boot (with the exception of biometrics).

The problem is that some of the calibration and configuration is component specific, so in certain cases a replacement has unintended consequences, which, because it’s Apple, gets explained a purposeful attempt by Apple to break non-authorized repairs.

Personally to me this is rather hilarious notion because Apple isn’t known to be shy about being explicit in their messaging, case in point would be the messaging when replacing a battery.

The simple fact of the matter is that calibration is simply part of the repair and if not done, the repair isn’t done properly.

It’s the same as replacing your tires without aligning them and then blaming the car manufacturer for all the vibrations you feel during your rides.

Just about now the conversation then shifts to who gets access to calibration tools.

Currently Apple, Apple Authorized Service Providers, independent repair shops that are part of the free Independent Repair Provider Program and customers using the Self Service Repair service have access to these tools.

That covers pretty much all scenarios, with the exception being cowboys that want to go at it alone because they don’t want to subject their skills to any form of scrutiny.

I think it stands to reason that they then use their unimpeachable skills to transfer the control chip that holds the calibration data.

0: https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/23/23843506/apple-california...

[biogene]

>The commenter said “Shit action is Ok, but boy that other company is worse” and that just doesn’t compute for me.

If you're using quotes, you should be quoting something I actually said, rather than making stuff up. Don't worry, I'll tell you exactly what I think, so you don't have to do that.