[galaxyLogic]

Your post reminds me of xenophobes who lament the arrival of immigrants. The immigrants are taking their jobs they are saying. Such a viewpoint can be countered with the imaginary scenario where you live in a country with only 2 people. How well are they doing? There are no stores to buy goodies from because who would create such a store for just 2 people? Perhaps an immigrant, could open a deli!

When there are more immigrants who are allowed to work, the immigrants will make some money for themselves. What do they do with that money? They spend it, which grows the economy. Our economy, not some other country's economy.

If you were the only living person on this planet you would be in trouble. Thank God for other people being there too.

[bluefirebrand]

> What do they do with that money? They spend it, which grows the economy. Our economy, not some other country's economy.

I'm going to guess you've never spoken to anyone who is sending money back to their family in their original country with every paycheck.

Not really the point of this conversation I guess but... yeah. It does happen more than you probably think. To the point where malls in my area have kiosks for wiring money to other countries for cheap.

[Sai_]

Wouldn’t they be sending left-over money ie, money after spending locally, back to their home country?

I can’t imagine a lot of people out there who send all their money back home without spending some of it locally for self sustenance.

[eru]

> I'm going to guess you've never spoken to anyone who is sending money back to their family in their original country with every paycheck.

If that sent money ever comes back to the domestic economy, then you are back to the previous situation.

If it doesn't come back, that's even better: because then your central bank can print more money to make up for the disappearance. Essentially, you got the foreigner to perform services in return for some ink and paper.

[soorya3]

That's not true, most of the money is spent here and very little to take care of the family that's been left back home. Otherwise how can they survive here, think about immigrant kids education, housing, healthcare, retirement.

[Fripplebubby]

I agree this happens a lot, but isn't this an area of financial life that is regulated, governed, and monitored by states today? I am not familiar with the policies or regulations in play here but this seems very addressable by the institutions and regulatory bodies that exist today in most (all?) countries. A solved problem, in other words.

[Fripplebubby]

For example the income tax or other taxes already capture a portion of foreign workers' incomes that the state wants to capture without discouraging workers too much and working elsewhere, according to their economic models and policies.

I suppose different countries have different strategies on this, rich countries are trying to benefit from foreign labor and capture some taxes from them while less rich countries are trying to increase their haul by encouraging their citizens to become foreign workers (example: Philippines).

[galaxyLogic]

Right and workers are the ones who build the country. The more workers there are the bigger the gross domestic product. Now if some money enriches people in other countries that means they will buy more Coca-Cola! This planet is not a zero-sum game. When people help each other that helps everybody. The exception is of course countries which start wars.

I mean if USA had never allowed immigrants to come here where would we be economically?

[solatic]

Your logic: let's reduce immigration because immigrants send remittances to family members who are not permitted by our immigration laws to join their family members in this country, which would increase immigration numbers further while reducing capital offshoring.

[anon84873628]

It seems you completely misunderstood the parent comment. They are arguing against the existence of the repugnant conclusion, by pointing out that happiness -- like the economy -- is not actually a finite pie to divvy up.

[ThinkBeat]

Your scenario leaves a lot to be desired.

Yeah two people only.

Well Your scenario can easily be countered with the imaginary scenario that you have a town with 1 billion residents, far too little housing, no green space left due to trying to provide housing and the city only has natural resources for perhaps 300.000.000.

Now 100.000.000 immigrants arrive. There is not enough food, water, hygiene. Hopefully, opening delis will solve the issue.

Yes, it is absurd. But no more so than a world of 2.

History though does prove your theory right. When proud and brave Europeans immigrated to what would become the United States.

"When they arrive there are no stores to buy goodies from because who would create such a store for just 2 people? Perhaps an immigrant, could open a deli!""

Thankfully for the native people's immigrants came in to create a consumer capitalist culture.

Can you imagine the utter horror if they native peoples were allowed to keep their versions of society going and develop it the way they wanted. They sure were blessed by the immigrants. A lot the natives' peoples also became xenophobes and we sure now what bastards' xenophobes are.

[astrange]

This is silly because you don't have to imagine any scenarios. Good economic models are based on empirical data, not on imagining things, and "immigrants don't increase unemployment or decrease wages" is just about the strongest empirical result there is.

The reason being that someone moving closer to you increases demand for labor more than supply, and immigrants generally have complimentary (slightly different) skills to natives. So the person whose labor the immigrant most competes with is another immigrant.

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/why-immigration-doesnt-reduce-...

As for remittances/brain drain, there are certainly theoretical issues but it seems to be okay in the end because it boosts investment in the originating country.

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/why-skilled-immigration-usuall...

[Spivak]

And if you subscribe to MMT you should love immigrants because they're free "unemployed" people you didn't have to spend money raising so you have greater runway to print more money without inflation.

[galaxyLogic]

And if they are illegal immigrants, even better, they will work hard for a very small salary. They even do very little crime because they don't want to be thrown out of the country.

I think in general immigration from say Mexico to US is a loss for Mexico and a win for US.

[galaxyLogic]

Country of two people is not hard to imagine, think of a desert island with Robinson and Crusoe.

Overpopulation could be a problem but when people become better off financially they for some reason tend to have fewer children.