[tills13]

I think this is simply tapping into existing infrastructure. It's not all bad. When I stop to charge, usually I'll find the nearest washroom and use it (why not?). I might grab a snack or something, too. A gas station satisfies both these requirements and is already grid-connected (electricity, plumbing, waste).

What I'd like to see more of is comforts -- I want a comfy place to sit and relax for a bit or a park trail to walk around. I hate when I pull into a charger and it's just a parking lot. Not stimulating at all. Nothing to do but sit there. If I'm not using the gas station amenities it's not much better than an empty parking lot.

I feel like gas stations have this "grind" / roadtrip mentality whereas I kind of want a relaxing, decompression space to charge my car. So maybe you're right...

[toast0]

It feels like it would make more sense to encourage installation of charging infrastructure at places where you might want to be for half an hour anyway; parks with parking lots, restaurants, grocery stores, etc; rather than encouraging it at gas stations, except for in the rural highway case where gas stations might be all that's easy to find when you're driving between urban areas.

[gspencley]

> except for in the rural highway case where gas stations might be all that's easy to find when you're driving between urban areas.

Range is the one thing that is preventing me from looking at EVs at the moment. I own a car but I don't actually drive much in the city since I work from home and use grocery delivery services since I hate grocery shopping. When I tend to drive most it's because I'm going a long distance: 8 to 10 hour road trips up north etc. The idea of adding hours to such a trip, or turning it into an overnight trip, makes it a non-starter for me.

I bring this up because the article specifically talks about about gas stations along the Autobahn. I've never been to Germany, let alone driven on the Autobahn, so maybe it is used quite frequently for shorter trips. But speaking of freeways in general, especially here in North America, I wonder if this is another reason that looking to gas stations along a freeway is a misguided "target." If people are using EVs on freeways, wouldn't they be more inclined to exit the freeway into a city and charge at a motel or a shopping centre while they stop overnight or at least a few hours?

[no_butterscotch]

> The idea of adding hours to such a trip, or turning it into an overnight trip, makes it a non-starter for me. > If people are using EVs on freeways, wouldn't they be more inclined to exit the freeway into a city and charge at a motel or a shopping centre while they stop overnight or at least a few hours?

Yes you're right on the money.

I bought an EV to drive around my home area in CA. Instead I've just used it for road-tripping back East to see family.

Each road-trip has convinced me how bad these cars are for long-range driving. Aside from "range anxiety" (going only from one supercharger location to another, and not venturing away) - the charging times are brutal for cross-country trips.

You will spend hours per day, hours, sitting in back of Holiday Inn Expresses in the middle of nowhere Kansas, or in back of a shady truck stop in the middle of Texas.

Safety as well: I've thought about if I were a female for example at some of these locations it wouldn't be safe to be alone, with nobody around, sitting in your car. You're unable to start it and drive away if it's plugged in, not without getting out to unplug it which you have to do manually (there's no emergency eject charger cable button). So if there is a Texas Chainsaw Killer outside your window you're screwed.

Having said all that. It is a perfect car for just driving around my neighborhood IF that's what I intended to. In practice, I never do it.

[bryanlarsen]

It's a completely different experience in a Tesla. We've done 4 3000 km trips in our Tesla (Ottawa to Saskatoon and back twice). Never any anxiety, the car tells us where to charge and we know it will work.

Being a young family, we had to stop more frequently and for longer for bathroom breaks etc than it took to charge.

Hopefully you get a NACS adapter and a proper experience soon.

[tills13]

Yes and no. You only stop for "hours" once / day when you're done driving. It's _convenient_ to charge overnight (and why wouldn't you do it) but it's not necessary. 90% of my charging is done during the day, during the drive.

For example, here's a 7+ hour drive from Calgary to a campground in the middle of Saskatchewan: https://i.imgur.com/GTeNnYa.png (the 5.4 hour charge is us charging up using the RV hookup at the campground)

We stopped for about an hour total. If you are a "roadtripper" -- that is, no stopping, just getting to the destination, then sure, you have a point. That's 1 hour where you could have been at your destination. From my perspective, I took that time to get lunch and stretch my legs and use the washroom... mental health stuff.

[gspencley]

Yeah I guess I'm a "roadtripper." I don't like driving itself. I just want to get from point A to point B as fast (and safe) as possible. Typically on an 8 hour drive my wife and I will make one or two 5 minute stops for bathroom breaks and to refuel. We'll eat in the car if we actually have to eat (but I only eat one meal a day so that's not common). The mental health hit for us is knowing that we're wasting precious vacation time travelling rather than vacationing. If we loved the drive itself then maybe it would be different, but I don't.

[tills13]

Definitely agree with you for urban: parks, malls, restaurants -- they'll already have ample parking and be grid-connected.

For rural, yeah you gotta make do with what's already there. Gas-stations fit the bill.

[danudey]

How long does it actually take you to charge? I'm picturing the gas stations around here and even with a supercharger I'm not sure I'd want to just sit at a gas station for 15 minutes, even if there was room on these small-footprint locations to park several cars for an indefinite amount of time.

I don't have any better ideas, mind you; maybe small local parks should have to have charging infra if they have parking spots. Great place for the family to just get out of the car and stretch their legs for a while.

[rpgwaiter]

Waiting 15 mins at a gas station during a road trip isn't bad. You probably have to go in and use the restroom and grab snacks anyways. Usually by the time I'm done with that, the car is ready to make it to the next charger

[gnicholas]

I see people write stuff like this, and it doesn't resonate with my experience at all. My understanding is that 20 mins is the minimum for a 10-80% charge, and that's assuming that your vehicle can charge very quickly, and that you got lucky and found an available charger that supports very fast charging.

Second, a 20-minute stop is much longer than pit stops I make. It takes 3 minutes to fill my gas tank, and then I can go for another 400 miles. I might add another 4 minutes to use the bathroom, but I never stick around for 20 minutes.

I can imagine in the future there might be plentiful supply of super-fast chargers that can add 400 miles in 5-10 minutes. But today, the much more common experience is to add 250 miles in 20-30 minutes, which is a far, far slower rate. Until things change, EV advocates aren't helping their cause by claiming that charging doesn't take much longer than pumping gas. You might be correct that "by the time I'm done with that, the car is ready to make it to the next charger", but who wants to stop at every charger? I don't gas up my car enough to make it to the next gas station — I fill up the tank so I can make it to my destination.

For the record, I own a PHEV and like it. But I don't have an full EV because it introduces too much uncertainty for road trips, and because electricity is subject to outages where I live (norcal).

[matthewdgreen]

> Second, a 20-minute stop is much longer than pit stops I make. It takes 3 minutes to fill my gas tank, and then I can go for another 400 miles.

Don't do this. It's extremely bad for your health, and it also results in degraded and more dangerous driving quality. The worst thing is you probably don't realize it. Unless you're a professional driver, you should take a break every 2-3 hours for at least 15 minutes (which is coincidentally about what charging requires.)

[rpgwaiter]

This only applies to the supercharger network, but they are so common that I don't go from 10-80. It's usually more like 20%-60%, which is 15 mins or under for me usually. I can make it to the next charger with ~20% and repeat the process

Besides, chargers are usually really far from the actual building so you gotta add another couple mins just walking to/from your car :)

[gnicholas]

So you’re stopping every how many miles? 40% of 300, so 120? Seems like that adds a significant amount of travel time, roughly 1/4 hour for every 2 hours traveled.

[tills13]

Maybe I'm just coping, but I personally see this as a feature rather than an issue. Sitting for long periods of time is not healthy. Getting up for 10-15 minutes every two hours is _good_ for my mind and my body.

[bryanlarsen]

The first stretch after every sleep is from 100 to 10, and a stop for food can easily put on 80%.

[ThunderSizzle]

It seems to me the status quo (the energy density of fuel) is far beyond anything EVs can do and is the better idea right now.

If we need to offer more efficiency beyond that, improving rail transportation is probably more realistic than EV infrastructure.

[wink]

Makes some sense at highway gas stations, but hardly any in cities.

I'm not even arguing that I hardly ever do or want to have longer stops at gas stations. Restrooms only when it's urgent (so maybe once per 5h drive), food only when needed (overpriced and not good). So I'm the 90% "stop, fill tank, go pay, drive off" person, so if I had an EV this would be.. mostly as unpractical as everywhere else.