[pjc50]

It was obvious to me, a Brit, that there would be massive American retaliation against whichever country was linked to this - and I said so in the office where we had all broken off work to crowd round the TV or refresh news websites. Then a second plane hit.

(I incorrectly guessed it was the PLO responsible)

> That week, many of the people I know would've been happy to launch nuclear weapons at every population center in Afghanistan and the capitals of every nation that'd so much as looked at the United States funny in the previous ten years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_C...

There was (and still is in some quarters) a huge desire for revenge against Iran. A side effect of Republicans going full Qanon is that they no longer care about the middle east at all, and the PNAC lot fade into history.

[no_wizard]

I remember talking about PNAC at a debate session of all things in high school. Our debate club was pretty big and well known in our school

The teachers that ran it shut me down, saying I was peddling conspiracy theories about PNAC influence and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, this was 2008/2009.

I'm still, based on research I've done since, convinced that PNAC had a huge influence on George W. Bush and Dick Cheney in particular, and the white house at the time more generally. Ultimately I believe this is why they pursued the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, was due to the ideas espoused by this group

[pjc50]

You were absolutely correct; it was as close as possible to publishing a manifesto saying "here's how we're going to launch a war in the middle east" and then doing it as you'll ever see. The same clearly identifiable people were involved all over the place.

[peterleiser]

Exactly. PNAC wasn't conspiracy theory at all. It wasn't even an "open secret": They had a website, the signatories were public, many of the signatories were in the Bush W. administration. PNAC was discussed often on all the talking head political shows. It became the plan after 9/11.

I think some people a decade or so later thought it was a conspiracy theory because they thought it implied 9/11 was done, or allowed to happen, on purpose in order to begin the regime changes outlined in the plan.

But with PNAC this was their world view and plan, and 9/11 allowed them to move forward. Wrong plan, right time.

[no_wizard]

In retrospect, what I think was happening was teachers were afraid of other parents (many, many of which would be classified as conservative republicans) getting upset at them. The debate club was a big deal in my school and parents were actively involved with many aspects.

I think they saw headache and shut me down the easiest way possible.

Its really unfortunate, however I do think this was the main driver

[sanderjd]

I still remember the short period of time when it wasn't clear someone had done it on purpose, or the slightly longer period of time when it wasn't clear who had done it.

Sadly, it would have been much better for the country and the world, if it had been a domestic group of some kind. Still really bad, but not as bad.