[pizzafeelsright]

How is anyone underpaid? If they agree to the negotiated compensation, isn't that equitable?

Let's say there is an employer who systematically wants to underpay women to save money by exploiting the pay gap. If there are no women in agreeing to the pay the employer will adjust upward in an attempt to either hire women or ignore the disparity, pay more, and appear bias.

I would argue that women who want more pay must discriminate more than their potential employer.

[avg_dev]

Often people take what’s offered, whether it is a fair deal or not. Everybody isn’t out there negotiating their best possible rate all the time. Corporations have long taken advantage of whomever they can to earn a buck - it’s a time honored “tradition”.

[randomdata]

That’s not underpaid. To be underpaid normally means one received less than was agreed upon. That scenario is offering a discount, maybe.

If it is true that women are likely to offer discounts, it questions why for-profit companies hire men at all? Meanwhile we worry about companies not being willing to hire women, not men.

[NeoTar]

Five minutes research":

Wiktionary - Underpaid: "Getting too little financial compensation for one's work." Meriam Webster - Underpay: "to pay less than what is normal or required" Cambridge Dictionary - underpay: "to pay (a person) too little" Dictionary.com - underpaid: "not paid enough"

Only the Cambridge version of those could imply (to me) only the definition of receiving less than what was agreed upon.

I personally like the Meriam Webster definition. If a software engineer is normally paid $ X, and you are paying $ 0.5*X, then that person is underpaid.

[randomdata]

> Wiktionary - Underpaid: "Getting too little financial compensation for one's work." Meriam Webster - Underpay: "to pay less than what is normal or required" Cambridge Dictionary - underpay: "to pay (a person) too little" Dictionary.com - underpaid: "not paid enough"

Exactly. There is nothing in there about agreeing to take less than you might have been able to get if you chose to charge more.

> If a software engineer is normally paid $ X, and you are paying $ 0.5X, then that person is underpaid.*

The general opinion is that people are not fungible. Why do you believe that they are?

[josho]

I can only assume you don’t actually want your question answered. Because if you did want an answer you could have asked an ai or searched as there is plenty written on the topic.

I see this pattern all over the place. Often with conservatives. Asking a reasonable question that puts the fundamental concept in doubt. But never actually wanting to know the answer because a simple search would have revealed lots of thorough and existing discussions answering the question.

[pizzafeelsright]

I want to hear from people who hold a different opinion, not academics.

Would this be the fallacy of an appeal to authority?

[josho]

That's fair. Then don't read the search result from the economist. Read the result from the Census, or the Forbes article, or HuffPo if you don't like their stance.

My point is simply that your question is valid, but has been asked and answered a thousand times before. Nothing in your question is specific to this audience that we'd have a twist on the answer that isn't represented in any of the thousand existing answers.

I'm curious, since you didn't get much discussion on your question here, did you take a minute to answer your question elsewhere?

[pizzafeelsright]

I am almost entirely surrounded by either professional people who do not discuss their income or people who share my position. The few discussions I have with people is they tend to agree that people are not conscripted or enslaved so they end up agreeing that they pay gap is caused by the acceptance of an offered compensation.

I am not discussing whether this is fair, equitable, or even kind. I just do not care for the misrepresentation of the situation.

I could argue I am both overpaid or underpaid based upon my perspective. Having been on the other side of the negotiations with friends and strangers the situation is the same. They want as much value as they can extract. I too want as much value as I can extract - within agreement. Now that I am back to being an employee I have requested more compensation. They were open and asked why: apart from desire, I have not provided additional value (yet) and thus am not entitled nor deserving.

[dns_snek]

> Because if you did want an answer you could have asked an ai

You're joking, right? Otherwise why stop at AI? Why not go directly to the source and read Twitter?

[josho]

I'm not joking. This is an area that AI would answer well. It's an issue that's been around for decades and is frequently written about by reputable sources. Like Wikipedia, it's probably a good start for someone like the parent who hasn't given this area much thought.

What makes you think it's a joke?