[dbspin]

Really curious to read the negative responses to this. We now know a great deal about how the body stores affective learning somatically, and how systems from the endocrine system to the gut microbiome interact with the central nervous system and brain to generate and modify emotions. Emotions are to an extent cognitive interpretations of autonomic bodily responses. I can see the appeal of dualism, but it's in conflict with the measurable impact on emotional learning, memory and expression observed in numerous somatic disease processes.

"Without the bodily states following on the perception, the latter would be purely cognitive in form, pale, colourless, destitute of emotional warmth."

We can actually observe this in patients with severe quadriplegia, where affect becomes flattened over time as 'polling' somatic responses becomes muted. Similarly we see changes in emotional sensitivity and expression when the gut microbiome is disrupted, when the endocrine systems is dysfunctional, or from numerous other organic disease processes.

[rawgabbit]

My understanding is that the mind body connection is accepted. Ie, if you have a chronic physical ailment it will affect your mental state.

What is more exciting for me is Daniel Kahneman explanation for why smart people do dumb things. He brings a more nuanced explanation than fear or flight. Essentially he argues our mind usually operates in autopilot System I thinking which is full of mental shortcuts and biases. Often people get trapped in a doom loop because they are so exhausted they cannot activate System II which will alter biases and behaviors. In other words, when people are chronically stressed and exhausted they keep doing the same thing and complain they are not getting better results.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=d953fegpMFE&si=d1LN17swtSO6WNtK

[antiterra]

> how systems from the endocrine system to the gut microbiome interact with the central nervous system and brain to generate and modify emotions

Our digestive system has a significant neural system of its own called the ‘enteric nervous system’ and given the (perhaps sensationalist) nickname ‘the second brain.’ There’s also the ‘intrinsic cardiac nervous system’ interfacing with our heart. There have been a lot of interesting results showing neuronal reactions to external stimuli. I don’t want to overstate things, as is so often the case with laypeople in the face of scientific mystery, but, at the very least, the brain isn’t entirely isolated when it comes to cognition.

[danmaz74]

I remember reading in a psychology manual years ago about an experiment where they gave people a drug which would induce a physical feeling, and verified how this "made" those people feel the corresponding emotion.

Personally I wouldn't be surprised at all if there was a complex feedback loop at work, where both bodily sensations which come from outside of the central nervous system and mechanisms internal to the latter would give raise to emotions.

[samirillian]

What negative responses do you expect? Don't feel like there are a lot of HN dualists out there.

[yosito]

As someone with celiac disease who often has to deal with acquaintances telling me that my stomach pain is actually emotional and "in my head", I can understand negative responses. Based on my own personal experience, eating gluten can absolutely affect my emotional state, and going through a difficult experience emotionally can also cause my Celiac to flare up. I think what isn't clear is which way the causal relationship goes, and I don't think there is any reason why it has to be just one way. Our minds affect our bodies, and vice-versa, but it can be very complex.

One thing that I've figured out in relation to all of this though, is that if I'm ever feeling emotionally bad, focusing on doing what's best for my body always helps. For example, going through a breakup or divorce is emotionally painful and I don't think most people would blame their body for that pain (I wouldn't), but any time I've gone through a heartbreak, I've found that the best remedy is to hit the gym, stay active, and eat healthy. If my body feels good, my emotions will follow.

[FrustratedMonky]

I disagree.

There is a strong under-current on HN to be anti-"any kind of psychology/social science/human understanding". There is a belief that humans can't be understood.

Many times there are views expressed about 'humans', or 'reality', with the argument being 'it so obvious to not need to studied', without realizing that the logical conclusion is "Dualism".

Especially lately with AI.

Basically, a lot of HN expresses beliefs about AI versus human, and the argument takes the form that humans are just 'special', which actually does lead to 'Dualism', whether they realize it or not.