[codeisawesome]

So many people in this and every thread online (there’s a deluge on Reddit / Instagram even, almost feels like astroturfing) complaining about immigrants. Perhaps it’s convenient to blame other people.

Take a look at housing density and zoning, and fix the problems there. Get a more vibrant economy in the process: a society that aspires to be stuck in a ‘golden era’ is one that is chasing an illusion.

[CTDOCodebases]

Why not look at all contributing factors?

People critical of immigration aren't necessarily critical of the immigrants themselves but they are critical about the level of immigration during a housing shortage.

I believe governments don't want to address this because of the ugly truth it would expose.

At the heart of the issue is sky high deficits and an ageing population putting pressure on federal budgets and the easiest way to grow the budget is to continually increase the tax base.

The local population doesn't wan't to or can't afford to have children and it's more beneficial for the government to import full grown adults who will contribute towards GDP immediately. All costs from doing this (i.e not just financial costs) are passed onto the citizens. Those with assets actually pay the least in this system since they financially benefit from increased increased rents, suppressed wages and larger target markets.

This is not a phenomenon unique to Canada. It is common problem in developed nations.

[mitthrowaway2]

> complaining about immigrants. Perhaps it’s convenient to blame other people.

So, this is conflating two completely different issues, in a rather counterproductive way.

There is "complaining about immigrants", which is racist stuff like "I don't like the fact that the composition of my neighborhood is changing, I don't like the fact that the people from other places are different than me, I don't like that my school has to hire a Mandarin interpreter for parent council meetings".

Then there's a completely different thing, complaining about unsustainable immigration levels. Which has nothing to do with disliking the immigrants themselves, and might even involve a great deal of concern about their welfare. This is what you get when the situation is so bad that even Ukrainian refugees want to go back to Ukraine because they didn't realize how hard it would be to fend for themselves in Canada.

As one person aptly put it, this is the kind of complaint that happens when a host invites a hundred guests to a party and only orders three pizzas. You aren't complaining because you don't like the other guests, you're complaining because the host's all-are-welcome attitude is completely irresponsible when they have no intentions of making accommodations available.

[ZoomerCretin]

Then make accommodations available. The analogy doesn't even hold to reality: you don't need to spend any money creating accommodations; you only need to repeal the extreme restrictions that prevent any more accommodations from being built.

Most of the housing crisis is a result of politicians and homeowners refusing to cede even one plot of land for any building denser than a detached single family house. The other week on Twitter, a city councilmember from Toronto/some major Canadian city was complaining about an apartment tower being "out of scale with the neighbothood" as though 90th percentile incomes were still sufficient to get a loan for a house.

[mitthrowaway2]

It's worse than my example because the reality would be like if baking a pizza had a three-year lead time.

Even if the authorization was permitted to construct an entire new city capable of housing 3 million people, no reviews or permits, and assigned the highest priority and a blank-cheque budget to rush construction, it would take at least ten years to build. Vancouver's massive Oakridge redevelopment alone broke ground in 2019 and is expected to take until 2027 to complete. (The rezoning was approved in 2014.)

And that is what we should do! Yes! The country should be building brand new cities and linking them up with high-speed rail. But, even if that plan were shovel-ready today -- which it definitely, definitely isn't! -- it would still take years before it contributed to the solution, and all the while, the demand is continuing to grow!

The seeds of the supply solution to today's housing crisis needed to be planted at least ten years ago. But it wasn't, so we can plant those seeds now, but they'll take time to come to fruition. In the meantime, the only fast-acting measures are demand-side measures. And having to deploy demand-side measures is a very tragic consequence of not having taken timely action on the supply side. And that's even assuming we can plant those seeds today: if the city council squabbling about setbacks and floor-space-ratios continues today, then those seeds still aren't being planted, the demand-side measures will unfortunately need to last even longer, and the vitality of the country will suffer for it.

[lifechoseme123]

"make accommodations available"

do you mean make housing available? (I ask because "accomodations" could mean other things)

If so-- Who would pay for that housing?

Are you opening your door and renting out rooms for free? Do you expect other people to do so?

Asking my tax dollars to go towards the housing of an illegal entrant... when there are legal entrants waiting years to enter the country... Nah, doesn't make sense. Sounds more like theft.

Crossing the border illegally is the same as barging through my locked door into my house. And it's especially egregious when there is a system created specifically for LEGAL immigration.

It's a slap in the face to those who follow the lawful process, in our orderly society...

...by a person coming from a disorderly society (where 90%+ of crimes go unpunished-- as is the case in Mexico)

...who thinks they have the right to break the law in a country they aren't even legally allowed to enter.

[mitthrowaway2]

Illegal entrants are not the subject of this thread. Your comment is a non-sequitur.

[GenerocUsername]

It's not astroturfing. Its a major contributor, and has been weaponized to the point that large portions of the population are trained to immediately dismiss any mention of it.

[codeisawesome]

The reason I use the term astroturfing is the complaint posts / comments all look & sound very similar with minor variations, like a “shaped charge” that detonates peoples’ emotional centers and taps into primal emotions like hatred and fear of the Other.

Very occasionally I see ‘real sounding’ and human sounding comments from every day people (instead of a professionally sharpened message). Those are now growing very slowly over time, which could just be a success of the propaganda.

[Anon_Forever]

>primal emotions like hatred and fear of the Other.

It's not hatred and fear "of the Other". Leftist and their leftist policies invite as many immigrants as they possibly can to an area with limited housing. Then it's shockedpikachu.jpg when the reality of supply and demand occurs and they clutch their pearls and ask "what could we have done to stop this?!" When in reality land, conservatives are telling them "we told you so". So instead of taking ownership of their mistakes thus proving conservatives were right, they gaslight everyone into thinking anything even remotely pointing towards the influx of immigrants is an issue is racist, effectively shielding themselves from blame.

This tactic of blaming any opposition as "racist" has been insanely effective in the West for the past four or so decades. Reality is catching up, and people left and right are seeing through the BS.

No one hates the immigrants, who wouldn't leave a third world country for Canada? The blame is firmly on the leftist politicians in Canada that are speed running the housing crisis.

[meowtimemania]

People should be allowed to discuss to what extent immigration should be allowed. Certainly there is such a thing too few incoming immigrants just like there could by too many. We should be able to have level headed discussions about the effects different policies have on different groups of people.

[Anon_Forever]

>complaining about immigrants. Perhaps it’s convenient to blame other people.

Leftist and their leftist policies invite as many immigrants as they possibly can to an area with limited housing. Then it's shockedpikachu.jpg when the reality of supply and demand occurs and they clutch their pearls and ask "what could we have done to stop this?!" When in reality land, conservatives are telling them "we told you so". So instead of taking ownership of their mistakes thus proving conservatives were right, they gaslight everyone into thinking anything even remotely pointing towards the influx of immigrants is an issue is racist, effectively shielding themselves from blame.

This tactic of blaming any opposition as "racist" has been insanely effective in the West for the past four or so decades. Reality is catching up, and people left and right are seeing through the BS.

No one hates the immigrants, who wouldn't leave a third world country for Canada? The blame is firmly on the leftist politicians in Canada that are speed running the housing crisis.

[e12e]

Well, I don't think First Nation/Native Americans are to blame - so I suppose it's technically an immigrant problem?

[abledon]

unsustainable levels of immigration is a huge contributing factor. US is 12x size of canada and has the approx same amount of foreign students.

https://archive.ph/4xWtC#selection-823.0-823.13