[jraph]

> half a dozen armed police officers wrestle you to the ground

or being kept in a cell for 8 hours for jaywalking is crazy.

Now I jaywalk all the time, but let's not call it simply "walking in a public place". It has safety implication. It's dangerous for you, and it can also endanger / have severe implications on other people who haven't asked anything. Road safety is no joke and should not be taken lightly.

[ta1243]

The burden is on the person operating 2 tons of machinery in a way that can kill someone

If your assertion that walking along/across the road is dangerous, how come pedestrian deaths in the US where such things are illegal are 22 per million population per year, and in the UK where such things are perfectly legal outside of a small number of dedicated roads is just 5 per million population.

Perhaps the problem is the culture which puts cars above people.

[jraph]

> The burden is on the person operating 2 tons of machinery in a way that can kill someone

Everybody needs to pay attention.

I usually bike, I try to be very careful and never had an accident, and I will be extra careful if I see pedestrians around, but pedestrians often increase danger and risks a lot when they just walk on my bike line though they have a dedicated area on the pavement, or cross it carelessly. I have some inertia, if I judge the pedestrian is not going to cross but they actually decide to cross at the last moment without noticing me, it's going to be an issue.

Just like when I'm pedestrian and bikes or cars don't bother to let me cross or don't notice me.

We need everybody to pay attention because if one happens to make a mistake, the worst will likely be avoided by the others. I'm grateful to the pedestrians or vehicles who paid attention the times I screwed up.

> how come [...]

Maybe UK drivers are more careful by virtue of jaywalking being expected. Or maybe UK and pedestrians are both more generally careful because of the culture. Or maybe UK cars and roads are just safer than in the US.

My point is not that jaywalking should be illegal. I actually wish it were legal in my area (nobody is punished for jaywalking here already). There's no point in crossing at a specific location or in waiting for some light to become green if it's already safe to cross because it's certain that nobody is going to cross your path at this moment. It's just plain boring and useless. Just that you need to be careful, and I would prefer someone who dangerously crosses the road to get a warning.

Now, we fundamentally agree:

> Perhaps the problem is the culture which puts cars above people.

Yes, and it's happening right now for some streets in my city. I wish this would be extended further. I would go to the extra length of saying that I want (most) cars to get out of the cities. I went to Winterthur, cars don't seem banned but people actually don't use the car inside the city. Pedestrian walk on the roads no problem. Less pollution and noise. What a breeze!

[notjoemama]

City/road design, greater distances of travel, higher speeds. No character, moral, or legal failing required. Some designs work better in some contexts than others.

I wish I could remember the YouTube channel but I saw a couple great critiques of road and city designs comparing the US and certain places in Europe.

Ah ha! I found it searching “stroads”, this is part of a series:

https://youtu.be/ORzNZUeUHAM?si=qN4_wwYnf8nQENjX