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by WBrentWilliams 1023 days ago
I find socialism amusing. It is best, I think, to consider socialism as a critique of capitalism. My working thesis is that capitalism is unavoidable. Markets do not solve every problem, but they solve many. The fact that socialism creates anger among many capitalists is, in fact, a point in favor of socialism as a critique: The anger wouldn't be there if the critique had no merit.

It is silly to attempt to achieve socialism. Better to use it as a gauge. Otherwise, it ceases to be a good measure and critique. Is the current system everything it could be? If not, then how could it be better and at what cost? This is like asking if a Market accounts for all costs. If it does not, that is, if a Market creates externalities, then it is time to consider, argue over, and politically implement alternatives.
2 comments
thescriptkiddie 1023 days ago
Socialism doesn't mean no markets. In fact, no attempt at building socialism so far has ever done away with markets.
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WBrentWilliams 1023 days ago
I had to re-check what I said. I said alternatives to markets that create externalities. These are, in fact, markets. They just don't dump costs off the books.

That said, I agree. No "socialist" economic system has been able to not have markets. This is exactly my point: trying to implement a "pure" form of "socialism" is a foolish game. Much like trying to implement a "pure" form of "capitalism" is a foolish game.

Much better, to keep torturing metaphors, to allow iron to sharpen iron. The best outcome is achieved, I think, by allowing the debate to endlessly continue.

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jancsika 1023 days ago
Unfortunately for you, we live in the world where "socialist" anything is the work of evildoers in the minds of many older Americans. So you're going to have to choose a different word if you want to be not only understood but also to avoid reflexive contrarianism.

May I suggest "Overton window?" It's scientistic enough that you could overload it to your use of "socialist" here. E.g., "We need to shift the Overton window to include C suite diversification." You won't get instead comprehension. But you'll at least get heads nodding instead of old grumps yelling their fears at you.

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Draiken 1023 days ago
> if a Market creates externalities, then it is time to consider, argue over, and politically implement alternatives.

Until you can't, because gigantic corporations are stronger than states and can purchase even more power through capital.

It amuses me how often I see socialism dismissed as "amusing", only to see naive arguments against it. We live in this world RIGHT NOW. We have proof that the market does not regulate itself. Let me rephrase, they regulate themselves to extract maximum profit at the expense of anything and everything.

And again, as someone else pointed out, markets don't vanish under socialism. What most argue for is a baseline for every human being to exist and the removal of the profit motive.

Meanwhile capitalists gloss over all the inherent contradictions of capitalism like the need for infinite growth. Now that is amusing.

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