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by jerrya 5197 days ago
It literally starts out in its first sentence by undermining itself.

It's first sentence is "Hi everyone." Is that the sentence you feel undermines itself?

It's second sentence is "We never meant to offend any person and are very sorry as we clearly have."

In that sentence they acknowledge that they have offended people and take responsibility for that, and unequivocally apologize for that.

The usual undermining apology sentence is more of the form,

"We never meant to offend any person and we are very sorry if you felt offended."

In that form, the authors are not taking responsibility for their actions, and not apologizing for their actions. They are blaming you that you feel offended.

I don't see that at all as to what Geeklist did here.

Then again, while I understand why the original viewer was offended by the video, and I agree it's a stupid video that shows the woman in her underwear, I would not call this one video fucking disgusting, nor would I attribute one video, made by one speficic woman for one specific company associated with "IT" as representative of IT, or CS or startups or entrepreneurship or geeks or men as so many people here at HN and elsewhere have done.

It was one stupid video and one stupid promotion in a world of stupid videos and stupid promotions many made by men, many made by women, and many made by men and women.

In the pantheon of fucking disgusting problems that IT or CS or startups or entrepreneurship or geeks or men or humanity or this country or the world faces, this video by one specific woman for one specific company is not present. It's out beyond Alpha Centauri.

If you would, I appreciate your elucidating why you feel this apology was so poorly done, instead of just branding it as bad and letting others fill in their thoughts why.

1 comments

They are editing this in place. We may be discussing two different apologies. (It's fine if they're tuning the apology up, a good thing even, so I'm not interested in tracking down the earlier one).

That said: "We never meant to... and we are sorry" is an apology antipattern.

Your instinct is that there's social value in signaling that you aren't (sexist/a plagiarizer/a serial laundry-on-floor dumper††/what-have-you). Your instinct is often right. However: apologize first. Your #1 priority in an apology is not to explain yourself and it's not (as many people on HN seem to think) to wear a hair shirt. Your priority is to communicate that you understand the concern and that you believe it's valid.

A quick list of issues I have with this apology (as an example of the form, not as a moral issue):

* It doesn't know what it's trying to do, and so comes across as evasive.

* It fails to establish that the author understands the validity of the concern.

* It spends its crucial first several sentences talking about the concerns of the apologizer (WE never meant to, WE are about the inclusion of every geek)

* It introduces the totally irrelevant point of the gender of the producer of the video (repeatedly) in a manner that makes it easy to read an objection out of the apology ("a woman made this, so why are you complaining?")†

* In startlingly bad form, it introduces the totally irrelevant point that the complainer applied for a job but did not end up working (subtextually, for at least a large number of readers: the complainer was turned down for a job)

* It tries to mitigate the concern by saying other women will speak on their behalf, which is also simply not relevant.

* It at one point blames the complainer ("we were taken off guard by her continued comments after we...")

* It actually brags about the apologizer ("I’ve built my career over 15 years working to make this world a better place for women, mothers, and children") --- in other words, this is an apology that both wants to serve as a +10 amulet of apologies against Twitter concerns and a marketing document.

These aren't moral issues. They're strategic and tactical failures.

The marketing goal of an apology is #1 to communicate your understanding of the validity of the concern and (very optionally) #2 to communicate as a feature/benefit message the steps you're taking to make it never happen again.

The business goals of an apology are #1 to put the issue to rest, #2 to put the issue to rest, #3 to put the issue to rest... #1984983 to put the issue to rest, and #1984984 (very optionally) to learn and grow from the experience.

It is, for whatever it's worth, a little annoying to feel obligated to write this much about this issue on an HN thread nobody is really reading (this is I think buried on the second page already). I'd appreciate it if you didn't assume I was required to respond at essay-length to every concern you might have with a comment. These are message board comments; unless you think I was directly wrong, maybe let some lack of depth go, every once in awhile?

Way to handle this issue, if it's really important that the issue be handled in your apology: apologize to the video designer and say you hope no part of this reflects badly on her, &c.

†† Wanna get good at apologizing? Be married for 13 years.