[dsr_]

Cars should have third-party entertainment systems. Everything about 'infotainment' systems is a terrible idea, because integrating something that changes three to five times in the life of the vehicle is stupid.

Put a nicely anchored 1/4-20 UNC mount in two or three locations, put a USB port that speaks the standard audio protocol next to each one, and connect those to an integrated DSP/amplifier suitable for the car's speakers and microphones. It will be good for three times the life of the car, and make everyone's lives easier.

[gregmac]

> Cars should have third-party entertainment systems. Everything about 'infotainment' systems is a terrible idea, because integrating something that changes three to five times in the life of the vehicle is stupid.

In my mind this has been largely solved for the past few years with Android Auto / Carplay. It would be nice if there was a true standard, but at the same time, there's only two phone operating systems so it works.

If you're not familiar with it, there are some huge benefits of the way it works:

* The system updates with your phone, not your car. Applies to both hardware and software.

* Data plans are also tied to your phone, which you presumably have anyway.

* Preferences are personal; my partner and I each get our own music, podcasts, and suggested destinations.

* Personally I love that my music/podcasts follow me around. I can browse and start listening to something in the car, then hours later throw in my wireless ear buds and continue from where I was while I mow the lawn.

There is also some level of upgradability from the car side, too: I recently added a wireless android auto adapter to my 2016 car. It was under $100, plugs into USB, and once I got it paired to my phone, I basically get in and start the car and in a few seconds the UI is there.

What I am skeptical about is that this will continue to be solved for the next few years: there's always that chance that Google will outright kill it, or Apple/Samsung/whoever will become exclusive to a single car manufacturer, or the manufacturers will somehow bungle this up with a subscription model of some sort.

[monknomo]

Carplay &co are good right now, but as someone that hangs on to cars for a long time, the trouble is that phones have a much faster lifecycle than a car, and are pretty unlikely to continue to work as smoothly as they do 20 years down the line.

For example, I just junked a radio with a 30 pin ipod connector. It was great and smooth in its day, but now, not so much.

Could be we'll get lucky and the phones of 2043 will work with the cars of 2023, but I think it's more likely that the car will work and the infotainment stack will be a half-functional ghost mall of tech in the middle of the car

[gregmac]

> and are pretty unlikely to continue to work as smoothly as they do 20 years down the line.

This is a fair point... but also just what happens with technology and time.

I assume you junked the radio not because it was broken (that can happen to any gear) but because the 30-pin interface itself is no longer desired -- it's no longer the best way to get the content you want (ie: from your phone).

This isn't really a different situation from a 20-year-old car (CD player), 35-year-old car (cassette deck) or 50-year-old car (8-track).

20 years from now, if there's a market for it and it's technically possible, someone will make adapters to get AA/Carplay units to be compatible with whatever the current technology is -- basically the 2043 equivalent of a cassette adapter.

[lotsofpulp]

CarPlay and Android Auto is just an interface that allows the phone the use the screen.

As long as Apple/Google maintain the ability to use the interface in iOS and Android, it will continue to work.

Also, that would be a reason for cars to come with replaceable head units.

[HDThoreaun]

I think the issue here is largely that automakers don't want you driving a 2023 car in 2043.

[JohnBooty]

     In my mind this has been largely solved for the 
     past few years with Android Auto / Carplay. 

I mean, yeah -- absolutely. For all the reasons you say.

But auto companies like Tesla and GM are now working hard to unsolve it because there's no profit in it for them. They want to control the experience and extract sweet, sweet subscription revenue. So, I'm not sure how "solved" it is.

[amethyst]

> What I am skeptical about is that this will continue to be solved for the next few years: there's always that chance that Google will outright kill it, or Apple/Samsung/whoever will become exclusive to a single car manufacturer, or the manufacturers will somehow bungle this up with a subscription model of some sort.

Or the manufacturers decide they don't like users bypassing their revenue models:

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/03/gm-confirms-its-droppin...

FWIW, I absolutely love Carplay and paid extra to have compatible head units installed in any of my previous cars that didn't have built in support. It's been fantastic, but I don't trust manufacturers to do what's in my own best interest.

See also the recent Mozilla privacy findings for cars.

[numpad0]

Every cars produced from 1970s until yesterday afternoon have one of that kind of standard mounting, colloquially called 1DIN and 2DIN form factors. It's the shape of old car radios and cassette player front panels. If you've ever wondered if it's actually removable or it's just such an extremely uniform and coincidental choice of aesthetics, it's actually a standard slot. And there are endless aftermarket options. Very few cars lacked support for it, but it's since been de facto deprecated and being replaced by Android Auto and Apple CarPlay.

> 1/4-20 UNC

ISO M8.

[coldpie]

Just use a 3.5mm jack. We solved this decades ago.

[dontlaugh]

Not quite, that doesn't allow integration with steering wheel controls.

[rdlw]

Sure it does. Even headphones have controls built in to the cable.

[dontlaugh]

That is not standardised across different headphone manufacturers and often doesn’t work. It doesn’t work at all on cars.

Analog protocols are not a good idea for this. Digital with a decent protocol is much more reliable, whether wired or not. In practice, the best option is either wired CarPlay/Auto or bluetooth.

[Max-q]

I used to think this. But the quality and integration of the infotainment in new cars, for example Tesla, is so much better than any extern unit I have tested, that now I really appreciate the systems coming with the car.

I used to change the unit, amp and all speakers. Now my new car is just working nicely unmodified.

[gpderetta]

Keyword being new. What happens in 3 years? 5? 10? Will the manufacturer keep it up to date?

[numpad0]

1st-gen Tesla are now 11 years old(first production is 2012). We already have answers and direction of motion; they won't bother engineering replacement screens for decade old cars, and they happily assist you with buying more cars when you think your gigacast has a hairline.

[mcculley]

You need more than "the standard audio protocol". The infotainment system should know a lot about the car's state (e.g., RPM, turn signal activated/deactivated).

[dsr_]

No, it shouldn't.

The car can feed media and mixing controls to the amplifier; there's no need to send that elsewhere. Strict separation of concerns. You want to play a "door is a jar" announcement? Tell the amplifier to reduce all the other channels to one-third their current volume and raise the announcement channel, then undo that. No need to involve the phone or tablet or mini-PC or MP3 player or subether radio.

[mcculley]

How would the navigation app on CarPlay know whether or not you have turned on your turn signal ahead of a turn? Or know to pause navigation because the car is no longer in gear?

[dsr_]

People don't use turn signals in Massachusetts; that's considered giving information to the enemy.

The navigation app has a clock, GPS location, and acceleration and orientation sensors available to it in the phone. If you miss your turn, it will notice and find the next best route.

Why would you want to pause navigation on a gear change? Velocity plus the connection to the vehicle tells you everything you need to know. Zero velocity but still connected? Keep displaying stuff; you might be parking and you might be in traffic. Disconnected but velocity is high? The passenger is going to use you; keep navigation alive in the background. Disconnected and velocity is zero or walking? Go back to powersave mode.

[mcculley]

I want the nav system to quit reminding me to turn when it notices that I have signaled. I want to pause navigation when I stop at the gas station or make some other stop (when not in gear, not gear change; the nav system should know when the vehicle has parked). Integration between the nav system and the rest of the car is table stakes at this point. It’s okay that you only want music. Some of us have higher expectations from our cars.

For example, the nav system should know when the battery charge or gas tank level is not enough to get to the destination.

I want the car to provide every bit of information it has to the phone so it can do smart things with it.

I rent a lot of cars in lots of places and I am amused at how poorly some manufacturers are handling this. Yes, treating the phone like an iPod works. That worked more than a decade ago.

(I was amused by your comment about Massachusetts. I am fully aware that Massholes have no respect for each other or the rule of law. Every time I return a rental car to Logan in one piece is a victory.)

[ninkendo]

The sad thing, is that somewhere out there there’s an infotainment PM at an automotive company taking note of every item in your list and saying “let’s implement stuff like that in our infotainment system! It’ll be a (jazz hands) differentiator!”

The auto manufacturers still have this delusion that they’re competing with Apple and Google on infotainment, instead of seeing the truth that better phone integration is not only the technically better solution, it’s something the customers want, and something that saves the company money. But you can’t get someone to understand something when their salary requires that they not understand it.

[itishappy]

> It’s okay that you only want music.

I've only ever known there was music...

What manufacturers do this state integration the best, in your experience?