[dreamcompiler]

Whatsapp can be assumed insecure because it's owned by Meta. Signal and the Apple apps are another story.

In the case of a national security incident, these companies don't cooperate with the government because they have no ability to do so. On occasions where the government has broken Apple encryption, they've done so by buying the software or services of companies who collect zero-day exploits, which Apple then fixes when they become known.

Governments hate basing a policing policy on the hope that a zero-day will exist when they need one. They much prefer a dependable backdoor that they can access which nobody else can, and that's the magic unicorn that cannot be built.

[klooney]

None of them are secure against the global surveillance apparatus. In the event of 9/11 2, the NSA will send goons to sit with the devs, make a special build that forwards data to a special data center if you're on a list, and then they'll go to Apple and Google to secretly force push the special build.