[ohgodplsno]

You can add other languages, such as Kotlin to that list. It is explicitly made to give you the ability to build a strongly typed DSL with proper scoping, references, validation, comes with all the benefits of a real language, including working language servers right out of the box that autocomplete everything properly. But that would require sysadmins to admit that editing all their config through nano with no syntax highlighting is an awful idea, no matter the amount of time they tell BUT WHAT IF I'M SSHING ON A SERVER IN ALASKA.

Despite all the complaints I have for Gradle (which, arguably, solves problems much more complex than "Ask AWS to burn through my cash"), its Kotlin DSL is impressively powerful and extensible.

[r0b1n]

ssh-ing somewhere strange on a small laggy connection is standard operating procedure. Not having internet is normal. Not being able to write gigabytes of crap into root's home is normal. Not to mention not installing some weird language environment like Kotlin just so the config is highlighted properly. Including all the bazillion libs i'll need. And all the editor configuration that i'll of course have to copy around everywhere. And then debug first, to get the language server working on old CrapHeadDistro 17.9 from back when Obama still ruled. Only to get chewed up in the next security audit for having installed too much useless old crap, because I need that to edit some config files...

You can pry vim from my cold dead hands. After pressing <Esc> thrice of course. You may even get me to install a syntax highlighting file somewhere and maybe use netrw if possible. But a random server you are adminning just isn't the same as your average developers single laptop.

[ohgodplsno]

>You can pry vim from my cold dead hands.

I won't need to, you're already giving yourself carpal tunnel with all the :wQ! INSERT-MODE :wmkGDonzn zz CWSFD, these hands are already marked for death.

[em-bee]

actually the opposite is true. esc-meta-alt-ctrl-shift[0] is more likely to give you carpal tunnel, than vi where you switch modes and then type commands with single keys instead of twisted key combos. i actually get annoyed at how many ctrl-key combos vim has.

[0] i don't know if emacs is that bad, but that's a classic pun that just fit here.

[aeonik]

I used vim for 10 years (not really an advanced user, but comfortable with it), and I just learned Emacs for the last 6 months...

I am now completely confused by the Emacs vs Vim religious war.

The two programs excel at completely different layers of productivity.

I can't think of any software that radically approaches improving your workflow like either vim or Emacs, and they are both wholly unique.

I also use evil mode in Emacs and while it feels like a great match, it has some impedance mismatch in some emacs packages.

It really makes me wonder if there is a deeper layer of integration that can be done here to really allow people to take the reigns off their interaction with computers.

[em-bee]

I am now completely confused by the Emacs vs Vim religious war

i think at least half of those who keep up with the emacs vs vim war are doing it just to confuse newbies. the other half really just prefers the emacs way or the vi way.

either way though you are right. they are both very distinct, and it's not one being absolutely better than the other.

[ohgodplsno]

To be fair, I have never advocated for Emacs either. Nano for quick edits, proper IDEs for anything else.

[em-bee]

every editing command in nano is either ctrl-key or alt-key. vi/vim is the only editor that i am aware of that doesn't make me stretch my fingers across the keyboard.

[kartoshechka]

rclone allows you to mount remote fs via ssh, it has some quirks but overall I'm able to maintain my self host setup with this. also I'm sure there are plenty of similar plugins, maybe even officially vendored, for all the shiny IDEs